So Mumsnet jury, would you allow your six year old DD to feel the consequences of her behaviour by not allowing her to go to a birthday party on Saturday?

[LittleBella]

I bought a fabulous book for the boy whose party it is, which I told her she was not allowed to touch as it could get dirty or damaged. Now I know I should have hidden it from her, wrapped it up, kept it out of her reach, etc., but I didn't because I'm not effing Supermum and I can't remember to be permanently competent. Actually that's not strictly true, I did put it up high and she would have had to get a chair to get it down. I also want my DD not to touch things which she has been told not to touch and at 6 years old I am wondering whether it is unreasonable to expect her to leave stuff alone when she has been explicitly told that that item is out of bounds.

Anyway the inevitable happened and she has broken the book. Not only is it broken, a couple of the bits are missing so it can't be fixed. (It's one of those books that you then use to build a castle.) I don't want to buy the child another present, so my inclination is to say to DD that as she no longer has a present to take to the party, she can't go.

Would this be utterly draconian? I have a feeling it would be, but otoh what consequence should she experience for this unfortunate event?

[LittleBella]

Thank you Soapbox.

She does normally see the reasonable side of me, sees the mad ranty side too occasionally. I fully accept that this may be too draconian or not draconian enough. Maybe I should only have taken half her toys (and left her with about 25 more, so she didn't notice...), maybe I should have bitten the bullet and not allowed her to go to the party. Who knows, if the rate of breakages goes down I'll be happy and feel vindicated, if it doesn't I'll know this was the wrong sanction and that's fine, I expect to make mistakes, as long as they're honestly made and made up for, I think my DD will forgive me. I don't care if no-one else does!

[soapbox]

Littlebella - whilst a little bit shocked at the way you parent your DD, I have enormous admiration for the way you have conducted yourself on this thread

If only your poor DD could see a bit more of the reasoned behaviour

[LittleBella]

LOL soapbox that is so not the case.

I forgot to mention, she has kept all her babies (because for some reason I don't see them so much toys as the other toys, they're her babies) and all her cuddly bedtime toys, teddies, rabbits etc.

As MadameP says, it really isn't much hardship. Of the toys she has now earned back, she has 8 and she has chosen to dump 12 in the charity bag. Which makes me realise I ought to be doing toy rotation anyway.

And paying for the other present out of her birthday money isn't actually going to have any impact on her. It's just re-iterating a principle.

[MadamePlatypus]

Its interesting isn't it. I hate the idea of missing the party, but I don't think its cruel to reduce the number of toys available to your average toyed up 2000's child. If I said to DS that I was going to clear a few shelves of toys that are gathering dust and gradually give back the ones he really values and get rid of the rest, I think he would be quite into the idea. In fact I am considering doing it...

[getmeouttahere]

This is getting a bit hysterical now.

walks away

[soapbox]

Littlebella - your argument that the punishment is okay because DD chose it, in preference to the party ban, is a little bit like saying that it was fair enough to chop her arm off because you let her choose between her arm and her leg!

[forevercleaning]

I don't think I would have done much more of a punishment than to act really disappointed, explained that mummy had spent all her pennies buying a nice present for her to give to her friend and now it is damaged.

Sometimes showing that mummy is really really sad, can get through much quicker to a child than any severe punishment, as sometimes that can just make the child upset and angry with mum!(Well, I have tried all sorts!)

Also, its part of parenthood, I believe to have just his sort of thing happen. A learning curve to compltely hide the present, and not even mention you have got one until the party itself.

[Crunchie]

just to remind you the OP did LOOK at the book, AND hide it away on a high shelf where the OP's DD had to get a chair and get itdown, AND she tol dher not to touch.

So I go back to my personal opinion, no party.

HOWEVER the OP then decided to discuss the punishment options with her DD. The DD CHOSE to have all her toys taken away and earning them back. I maybe wrong but I think LB probably offered that option insted to get teh point across and the child chose that one unexpectly.

I once gave my children a chance to decide what an appropriate punishment/sanction would be. They chose an option like that rather than being shut in their rooms for 1/2 hour. They didnt have to give up ALL toys, just some.

[MadamePlatypus]

I don't know exactly what LB agreed with her daughter, but I actually think having fewer toys around is a good way of getting children to value the toys they have - less toys to play with is no bad thing IMO.

If you are constantly tripping over toys that fall apart/that you don't really play with/that have bits missing and you are constantly in a sea of stuff its difficult to value things. (Madame P. trips over another sharp plastic thing...)

[Othersideofthechannel]

The bit about having already looked at the book with her, I mean.

[Othersideofthechannel]

oops, missed that bit!

[forevercleaning]

I know for sure, my children at 6 would have definately had a poke at the present!

I also know that at the same age, so would I!!

Any pressies I buy for the children to take to parties are well hidden away, until the party itself.

That way, there is not the temptation, or the aggravation of how to deal with punishments.

Lots of things they are told not to touch, because they are dangerous, precious etc, they do generally listen, but a toy/book item for their age group, no chance!

[getmeouttahere]

The OP must be pretty pissed off with the direction this thread has gone in.

About three days ago I agreed with the original option of "broken present=no nice party"

IMO, that is a short, sharp shock, particularly in view that this little girl certainly seems to be pushing the boundaries and, I felt, entirely appropriate in the cicumstances.

Littlebella, maybe you should have stuck to your original premise but I expect you are mightily sick of this whole thing by now.

[QuintessentialShadows]

poor little girl. You are setting yourself up for trouble, when you take away all the toys from a 6 year old, simply for not being able to resist playing with a new toy in the house (even if it was meant for somebody else, she is still a wee girl). As a parent, you should know your child, and it was your responsibility to keep the present safe from her curious hands. YOU failed, and you take it out on her. Why you couldnt keep it out of the way where it would not tempt her?

[ALMummy]

I have just read your punishments LB and I am

"All DD's toys have been taken away except her bedtime cuddle ones. She has to earn them back one by one by jobs, good behaviour etc. (So far she's got 2 back, there are about 600 more to go by the look of it. shock) She also has to pay for a new present out of her birthday money AND give up one of her unopened presents for the next birthday party she goes to"

Thats a massive punishment for such a small misdemeanor and its not a double punishment but a treble one.

Whats wrong with telling her she cant have any pocket money until she has paid for the book she ruined and also the one you will now have to buy? and then just leave it there. Not this huge punishment that will just drag on and on and on while she "earns" all her toys back.

What are you going to do when she does something really naughty? You have overreacted massively I think.

[LittleBella]

Otherside - I did look at the book with her. I said so about three days ago!

Really must go to judo now or they'll be late.

[LittleBella]

Almummy I've been discussing this because I'm finding it an interesting discussion about behaviour, consequences, punishment etc. I have not been justifying anythign, I don't feel the need to justify myself to you or anyone else, tbh. It's gone on for 4 days because it was an interesting discussion and a real dilemma for me. But thanks for letting me know that something I consider important, really isn't.

I'm beginning to get irritated now, just as well it's time for me to be off to judo with the dc's.

[Othersideofthechannel]

LB might have let this lie if the rest of us didn't find the issues it raises so interesting....

[Othersideofthechannel]

I guess with hindsight (marvellous thing!) it would have been best to look at the book WITH her enough to satisfy her curiosity.

[LittleBella]

Soapbox I consider what she did really bad behaviour.

Other people don't, that's up to them, but for me this is a big, ongoing issue that I want resolved. I do not want my DD to continue to play with things she knows she is not allowed to. This punishemnt (which you all think so harsh and which my DD isn't finding harsh at all - she's reading and playing with her brother more, which I frankly think is a good thing) is meant to make her aware that there are real sanctions for bad behaviour.

The alternative was for her not to go to the party or apparantly to just accept that she will continue to break things without sanction. The former wasn't acceptable to her, the latter is not acceptable to me. She preferred this one. And she has now earned back 6 of her toys, 4 of which have gone in the charity bag - on her instruction.

Oh and I've only read one parenting book, which I ddin't really like but I consider it quite insulting to imply that I'm so stupid that I would uncritically accept something from a parenting book which wasn't appropriate for my child.

[ALMummy]

You have spent four days talking, posting and justifying punishing your DD for this really not all that important incident. I agree it is irritating and I would have probably been quite cross.....for about 5 minutes and then just got on with things. This is a massive overreaction imo.

FWIW my Mum overreacted to everything I ever did as a child and I never went to her about anything as a teenager - even stuff I needed help with because it just wasnt worth all the drama.