So Mumsnet jury, would you allow your six year old DD to feel the consequences of her behaviour by not allowing her to go to a birthday party on Saturday?

[LittleBella]

I bought a fabulous book for the boy whose party it is, which I told her she was not allowed to touch as it could get dirty or damaged. Now I know I should have hidden it from her, wrapped it up, kept it out of her reach, etc., but I didn't because I'm not effing Supermum and I can't remember to be permanently competent. Actually that's not strictly true, I did put it up high and she would have had to get a chair to get it down. I also want my DD not to touch things which she has been told not to touch and at 6 years old I am wondering whether it is unreasonable to expect her to leave stuff alone when she has been explicitly told that that item is out of bounds.

Anyway the inevitable happened and she has broken the book. Not only is it broken, a couple of the bits are missing so it can't be fixed. (It's one of those books that you then use to build a castle.) I don't want to buy the child another present, so my inclination is to say to DD that as she no longer has a present to take to the party, she can't go.

Would this be utterly draconian? I have a feeling it would be, but otoh what consequence should she experience for this unfortunate event?

[UniversallyChallenged]

Good posts crunchie and rubberduck

[ahundredtimes]

Also how terrible was this child being? Did she actually want to destroy the present? I doubt it.

Had she seen it? Had they looked at it? Or was it just flashed passed her and put on a shelf and she was told not to look at it?

it's like white horses isn't it?

[Nighbynight]

Its a draconian punishment because a she did not do anything dangerous. She touched a book that was meant for someone else. It is not the crime of the century.

Am genuinely curious, if you expect blind obedience from your children, at what age are they allowed to disobey you?
How will you react, the first time they do?

[Quadrophenia]

I completely agree with everything you have said crunchie, it wouldn't have even occured to me that this is a draconian punishment.

[ahundredtimes]

Also my question is: why do you think blind obedience a good thing in a person?

[Crunchie]

nighbynight - it was my kids who told him (aged 6 and 8 at the time) that he should buy me at least 2 chocolate bunnies to compensate!!

I was upset as he knows that I feel that I should be able o leave stuff around if I want and not hide it, the children wouldn't have touched it, and it was them that decided the consequence.

They also made him buy me the BIGGEST lindt bunny at Easter the whole Lindt bunny thing is now a bit of a family joke, BUT interestingly my kids see it as you shouldn't take stuff that is not yours to take, and that includes mummy and daddies stuff

[Nighbynight]

I still find it weird, that your children would have such a strong feeling. what about the marriage vows bit about sharing all your worldly goods (did you put in an exemption for chocolate?!)

[choccypig]

A trick for future present buying. I nearly always buy a copy of something that DS already has. So he can appreciate what we are giving without needing to fiddle with it. Doesn't always work with girl presents, but then he is less likely to covet those.

[Nighbynight]

that is a good tip, actually. And then you can have vetted it, too.

[RubberDuck]

Blind obedience by my children? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... wipes tear from eye

Not at all. But they do know I'll follow through if I've given them several warnings.

And my FOUR year old knows not to destroy things. Occasionally he'll break something by accident, but he knows that birthday presents for other people are put away and he's not to touch them, and he knows about being gentle and that there are house rules (like not throwing hard toys and not throwing ANYTHING near the fish tank). Let alone my 7 year old.

I really can't see why expecting a 6 year old not to damage something that isn't hers is unreasonable. Especially if it's a repeating occurrence.

[Nighbynight]

no, but we are really talking about how serious an offence it is, not whether it is an offence at all.

[Crunchie]

guys I am expecting complete and utter disobidience and total annarchy when they are teenagers If they don't rebel I would be worried.

However it is about respect. I rebelled as a teenager, BUT I did not disobey my parents. WHat I mean by that is if they said categorically 'DO NOT DO XYZ' I wouldn't. If they said 'Please don't do xyz or we would prefer yu didn't do XYZ' then of course I would go out and do XYZ

I would also never lie to a direct question, evade the truth, skirt around teh truth, but if my mum asked me outright to my face, no I didn't lie.

That is what I expect, not blind obedience, as I said I am as soft as anything and spoil my kids rotten some would say, but both they and I know my lines and they better not cross then.

For example MIL was really cross that a curtian was accidentally pulled down at her house. She went on anon and my kids were upset about it as it was an accident - at that point no-one had said what had happened. I simply asked DD2 (who is now 7) did she pull it down, and she explained what happened. I wasn't cross, it could be fixed (just broke a plastic curtain ring). I hadn't ever said DO NOT PULL THE CURATIN, if I had I would have the right o be cross.

The OP told her child not to touch, I don't care if it is exciting. In our house my dd's know exactly where the 'present cupboard is' they can look if hey wanted, but they don't. I have asked them not to, and if I found they had I would be really upset.

[ahundredtimes]

I want to know if the OP did the looking thing first, or whether she said 'It's going up here so you don't destroy it, because I know what you are like and YOU ARE NOT TO LOOK AT IT.'

Because if she did, then it is my very sympathetic opinion, that she was asking for it.. . .

[RubberDuck]

"what about the marriage vows bit about sharing all your worldly goods" - we have some things we share (all of us), some things that are our own and are special to us.

For ds1 it's his remote control dalek, and that stays in his room and you have to ask his permission to have a go. That's fine.

Ds2 has a much loved cuddly toy that he sleeps with and he doesn't like anyone to share that, that's okay too.

I won't let the kids share my £600 camera - it's delicate and precious and we could ill afford to replace it at the moment.

We have an attitude that belongings and resources are finite and things should be looked after/mended where possible and respect should be shown to other people's belongings.

I find enforced sharing only makes them cling to ALL their things more tightly, whereas allowing them to have a few things that are special means they are more generous with other things.

[RubberDuck]

(and I have gone wildly off topic, sorry!)

[Crunchie]

nighby BTW in our house - YES there is an exceptun for chocolate!! Seriously it wasn't he chodolate thing. It was a wrapped present that someone at work had given me. on the stairs at home, he had to see it, shake is to realise it had a little bell, open the wrapping paper, and then the wrapping and eat it.

How would you feel if your DH opened your chritmas present and used it?? Ate it?? whatever

[ahundredtimes]

No, I agree with you RB. I think we are like that too.

But I'm trying to imagine a scenario in which my 6 y-o would get something down and look at it - and break it. And the only scenario I can imagine that would happen is something like what I detailed below.

[Crunchie]

No you haven't RD THAT is how I felt about my chocolate reindeer - it was still in its wrapping paper FFS (I only knew what it was as she gave one to everyone at work and they opened theirs) I thought by leaving it wrapped it was safe from his chocolate marauding tendencies

[Nighbynight]

I wouldnt care if he did, crunchie. Its a bit of chocolate, you can buy it in any supermarket.

rd, as you can see, that is not the point I was making about sharing worldly goods...

[MadamePlatypus]

Well this is Bill Cosby's advice:

www.tv.com/little-bill/the-birthday-present---the-birthday-party/episode/115308/summary.html

I think she does need a logical consequence, but don't think I would make her miss the party unless it was a really big party and the host really wouldn't mind her absence. My concern would be that its pretty miserable when people don't show up at your party, unless its a whole class thing where one less child really wouldn't make a differene.

[MadamePlatypus]

Could you maybe sell one of her books (on Amazon? - she doesn't need to know what really happened to it - you could take it to a charity shop), to replace the damaged book - she can keep the damaged book.

[MadamePlatypus]

Not sure if last post was clear - she should trade one of her books for the damaged book and you should tell her that you are selling her book so that you can buy a replacement birthday present.

[ReallyTired]

"However it is about respect. I rebelled as a teenager, BUT I did not disobey my parents. WHat I mean by that is if they said categorically 'DO NOT DO XYZ' I wouldn't. If they said 'Please don't do xyz or we would prefer yu didn't do XYZ' then of course I would go out and do XYZ

I would also never lie to a direct question, evade the truth, skirt around teh truth, but if my mum asked me outright to my face, no I didn't lie."

I certainly did told lies and was disobident as a teenager and a six year old. I think that most people do.

I think that it has to be remembered that most six years olds make mistakes, they are disobident, they test boundaries and sometimes lie.

Its part of growing up and anyone who says their six year old never behaves in a regrettable fashion is either lying or their child does not have a pulse.

The difficulty is disciplining a child without becoming childish yourself. Punish a child by not allowing them to go to the party punishes the birthday child as well.

Sometimes it better to make the child feel extremely guilty about their behavior rather than punish. If you tell your child in a quiet voice that you are disappointed in them it can have more of an affect than a punishment. Sometimes being punished makes children put aside their feelings of guilt.

As far as the present goes, could your daughter sacrifice a treat to pay for a new present. Ask her how she proposes to pay for a new present. Ie. could some of her old toys go to a car book sale? Or miss pudding?

I prefer my son to start each day with a fresh slate.

[susiecutiebananas]

I don't think its too harsh at all, at 6. Clearly a very bright girl of 6! She even said herself that had you issued that as the punishment for her touching the book before she touched it, then she would have left it alone... by that very admission from her, she has shown she TOTALLY understands actions and consequences.

She needs to have some kid of punishement. THe only thing that i think is wrong with he not going ,is that when you are 6, every single person that you invite to your party is important. It is also not really fair that the birthday -boy goes without a pressie because of DD being naughty.

Looks bad on you, TBH. - I mean, his parents and the boy, and anyone else who notices, will just see that you came to the party and didn't ring a gift. HE's not going to care if its her punishment, as he's the one losing out and being punished by association.

I think that she should either not be allowed to go to the party, and no pressie, or, she goes with a other pressie, and you find another way to punish, that will still bare some gravity. Like, not being allowed to go swimming this week, or, to someones house to play for a week, or something like that.

[DaisySteiner]

For those of you who think this punishment is harsh - I have a friend who plans treats for her children when they're going through a phase of being 'difficult' knowing that they will mess up, just so she can cancel the treat as a "consequence"

In answer to the OP - I can see why you're mad, I would be too, but probably wouldn't make her miss the party because it punishes the birthday boy too. Hmm, I dunno. Think I would probably go down the route of a talk about how she should have asked you if she wanted a look at it, how now you're going to buy a new one and it was expensive etc etc.