Telling my wife’s sister child off

[Hillwood2012]

I am writing on this forum to get some clarity, last night my wife’s sisters daughter who is nearly 7 was over for a sleep over and she started to have a massive argument with her mum in my house…. It started to get worse over time… she was attacking her and swearing eg F word and S word really loud punching my walls at this time. I was upstairs with my 7 month old baby trying to keep her away from the shouting. Then my wife, sisters daughter came upstairs shouting…. I told her Nicely if you want to do this please go down stairs….. then she came and screamed in my face and my daughter face at a high pitch scream…. So I I lost my temper and shouted at her to go down stairs now as I had listen to her screaming for ages at this point and she was running rings around everyone…. And it was getting late…… and now everyone is at me saying I’m the bad guy as I just wanted her to stop as she was scaring my children

Your are not in the wrong here. If anything you were much more kind than I would have been.

So basically everyone was shouting. Incl your dwife.
But somehow you’re the only one who is the bad guy and should have stayed quiet…. Hmmm….

Btw I agree that you shouldn’t have shouted.
But that situation should have been nipped in the bud way before it escalated to her going into the room to you and the baby.

You need a chat with your dwife.
Because youve been made the scapegoat in that situation. And I wouldnt want to take that role on.
Your wife will need to find a way to solve the issue with her sister, hopefully building bridges. But Wo throwing you under the bus. And acknowledging that her behaviour wasn’t on either.
Id think twice about having them at your house too.

I'm honestly surprised you're defending yourself here and people are defending you. She is a child you're an adult. She ran away because you frightened her, that will likely stay in her memory now. Your baby was safe because you were there. Yes the child was out if order but so were you. The parents do need to step up clearly, but why does it make it right that you screamed at her?

I disagree that you should never shout at children. It may be controversial but every situation is different. Regularly shouting is not ideal but with some children raising your voice can be very effective as a last resort. In the situation the OP was in, shouting was very appropriate. It worked immediately.
The people who let the child's behaviour get to that stage have no business blaming you. They should have managed her behaviour or at least kept her away from the baby. They should be apologising to you with the baby for having to step in and for distressing your baby.
Have a discussion with your wife. Is she really going to put a badly behaved 7 years old's antics above her baby's well being?

I agree the parents are useless in this situation and could have stopped it going that far. Doesn't excuse OPs behaviour that's a separate thing. Would have rattled the baby way more to her OP shouting

Well I can confidently say my dh would have told the mum and her feral kid to leave the house the moment the shouting and swearing started. It's absolutely unacceptable to go to someone's house and behave like that! Hopefully you never have to see either of them again. Your wife needs to learn to prioritise her own baby over her badly behaved neice. In fact you should ask why she didn't?

So what if he frightened her? I've always told my DC that if you're behaving badly you can't then expect other people to respond well to you.

Any child telling me to f off in my own home would be packed off along with the non responsible parent. What on earth was your SIL doing and what sort of a family allows a 7 year old to think it's acceptable.

I'd have shouted too and kicked them out. Absolutely not having that shit in my house. If dh questioned me he'd have the sharp edge of my tongue for not sorting it out earlier. Honestly, on what planet do people think it's ok to treat your home like a fight arena and expect you to not to get angry? Sometimes children have to learn that screaming and shouting will sometimes be met with a response they don't like. Better they learn it from you than someone who does decide to take it further

They are trying to scapegoat you to distract from their own shitty parenting.

A 6yo screaming, swearing and punching walls is absolutely disgusting. And then coming up and doing it in the faces of her uncle and baby cousin is actually shocking.

I would say you've had a lucky escape if they don't want to see you again. That little girl is only going to get worse, can you imagine when she is a teenager? And the parents should be falling over themselves to apologise for her behaviour not having a go at you for being the only one who tried to address it. Good riddance I reckon.

Scream in someone's face ..... get shouted at. Natural consequences init? I thought wishy washy parents were big fans of that stuff?

Well, it doesn’t sound like the mum was doing any good at parenting her child. I would have been tempted to say something sooner! I wouldn’t tolerate swearing in my house.

Even grown adults who know better than you?

OP, you keep saying "your house" and "your children". Are you and your wife not living together? Is she their step-mom?

If so, I can totally understand why you reacted the way you do if guests misbehave in your house and scare you children. If, however, these children belong to both you and your (current) wife and you share a house, then why aren't you using "we" in your descriptions?

Also, who was screaming in your face? Your niece or your SIL?

I am just having a hard time forming the picture of the situation in my head.

No, aside from teachers I don't have any expectations at all from other adults in terms of managing my child's emotions. I'd be telling mine it was their own fault they got shouted at and frightened because of how they treated this person.

Yes. Learning adults get angry if you scream insults in their face is an important life lesson that should be taught by parents, but if they fail in this basic duty then don't get surprised when someone else steps in.

I’m inclined to agree. In the best case people will respond with enough self control to remember they’re dealing with a child, in the real world everyone has limits and lines that can be crossed.

what should have happened after the 7yo’s tantrum is that her parents should have apologised and then the OP could have apologised for shouting at her. What they’ve done is completely bypass the fact their dd was in someone else’s house screaming and swearing, even going to so far as doing this at their baby (and let’s not overlook the fact that most parents are over protective of their babies in much less fraught situations) and looked to put any blame firmly on the OP.

extenuating circumstances don’t give a pass to behave like that though it’s not on the 7yo, it’s on the parents. They need to manage the situation and if they can’t remove her from the situation.

I think it's very good for parents to have appropriate talks with their children about their feelings and emotional regulation. It's important to try and model the right behaviour yourself, although it's hard because you get frustrated and overwhelmed too.

But you can't expect the rest of the world to do this with your children. In reality most people will get a flight or fight response to other people behaving like that. It was not the OPs responsibility to emotionally regulate this child. The child's mother should have kept them away from the OP and baby.

You had already removed your baby upstairs and away from your neices behaviour and at that point the adults, SIL and wife, should have removed the child from house. I understand that isn't always easy mid tantrum but far better than the consequences you and your wife are left with now.
That was appallingly shitty behaviour from the childs mother. Now your wife is blaming you aswell?
I agree with a previous poster, I think you have a wife problem. She should have been as concerned as you about protecting your child from their out of control cousin.
Hopefully you can have a more sensible conversation with your wife when emotions have calmed down.

Personally I think the odd proper bollocking for bad behaviour from a parent for poor behaviour tends to be a lot more effective and lead to a more cohesive household than a million little talks about emotional regulation. I rarely have to raise an eyebrow to my teenager having done a lot of the heavy lifting years ago and she told me how much she loves our calm home just yesterday. Sometimes things need nipping in the bud. But we have a policy of leaving things too, so we don't have ongoing discussions about poor behaviour, we deal with it and leave it.

Please don’t apologise to this feral child. I don’t think you did anything wrong. All this tip toeing around children is what causes these feral
kids in the first place. There’s a difference between a one off shout and ongoing abuse.

I would have shouted at her as well. How dare she swear and scream at you in your own home. Maybe she needs to be a bit scared. If her parents don't like it they can control their kid.

100% tell her off in that situation. But as an adult who couldn't regulate his emotions whilst holding a baby you've some cheek judging the seven year old for not being able to control her emotions. Fundamentally you shouted in the face of a child whilst holding your baby. You feel the circumstances pushed you to it. I'd imagine whatever the seven year old was feeling pushed her to behave that way too.

There's a difference between tip toeing around children and having some integrity and self respect when you deal with them. You can tell a child no without screaming. You can remove a child from that situation

You have done nothing wrong - no wonder the behaviour in schools is so appalling qt present with everyone tiptoeing around the child's feelings, giving no shits as to how their behaviour affects others (in this case a small bqby). I'd be fighting fire with fire and stating categorically that until your niece learns not to attack your property and act aggressively towards your baby, you too do not want her to be around your family or house. Admittedly it will be a hell of a rift to row back from, but it sounds as though your child has a lifetime of being tormented by this child (I had a cousin - similar age gap - who was like this as a child. She was cruel and dangerous towards me, and I avoid her now to this day.)

I did tell her very nicely to go down stairs if you’re going to do this…. Like my original post….. I was sat upstairs away from the fighting and arguing….. I shouted once at her when she came at my face told me to F off and s up…. And high pitched screamed in my daughter’s face…. Yes I agree everyone has there tipping point…. And I was just being a protective father to my daughter…. As she was 7 month and she was 7 years old….. yes I’m an adult but my little baby need protection from a bigger child……. And she was attacking everyone and hitting my walls and doors and I wasn’t going to just sit there and let some jumped up little s do that to my house