When someone tries to discipline your child without your permission

[MonaRosa]

Hi All

My six year old has several challenges and is currently on the pathway for an autism assessment and also awaiting the results of some genetic testing. It has been more than 2 years since I first visited the GP with concerns. So this has been a tough couple of years for us, to say the least.

I dont know if he has autism or not, but he is on school’s SEN list and we are hoping his ASD assessment will happen before the end of the year.

Here is what upset me today. We were invited to a family barbecue, which I went with my son. I do love my family, but at times these events make me feel like an inadequate parent.

My cousins has kids (a bit younger than mine) and they are very much by the book in the way they raise their kids. Strict routines, sweets only allowed on very rare occasions etc. With the challenges with my son, all of that is out of the window!! That makes me very self conscious as a parent.

The last couple of times we have been with the family, my son started by playing nicely with my cousins’ kids, but ended up getting overwhelmed after couple of hours in full tantrum mode.

On both occasions, I feel like one of my cousin’s husband treated my son badly.

Today, his little cousin was provoking him quite a bit, and my son ended up hitting him with a ball. I know that’s really bad, but I think what my cousin’s husband then did it soooo unacceptable. Despite me being there, and trying to get my son to say sorry (which he refused in full tantrum and trying to hit me), the husband intervened and tightly held my son (very very tightly!!! ), without my permission or even bothering checking if I wanted him to.

I am so upset that he thinks this is OK, and upset with myself that I didn’t confront him.

I said, please let me deal with him, he is very overwhelmed. And his answer was “if you say so” with a hint of sarcasm.

I felt judged for failing to discipline my child. But I am now more upset that I didn’t say to him that he shouldn’t do that to my child.

What would you have done? This now makes me not to want to go these family gatherings as all the other children seem son”normal” and my son so “misbehaved”.

I am sure you can tell how upset I am, and questioning myself as a mother too.

sorry for the rant, and thank you

Some people do find an out of control child hitting their mother offensive. It’s more than a tantrum. Best tactic is avoidance of gatherings. Plus DC saying “sorry” means absolutely nothing. Does he understand what he’s sorry for? Does he have empathy? He doesn’t towards his mum, I know it’s very difficult but just short bursts of relatives might be best for now.

There’s a lack of understanding about the best way to deal with challenging children especially from those lucky enough to have more easy going children. Some of that lack of understanding is reflected in a few of these comments.

I really feel for you OP. It’s hard to go along to these gatherings in the first place when you already feel judged and afraid that your little one might behave badly.

If your cousin had stepped in to help you avoid the incident by finding a way to play and distract or if he had stepped in to help calm your son in the aftermath then his involvement would have been welcome. He could have asked you …how can I help ?

Stepping in to forcibly and physically restrain your child by holding him really tightly in his meltdown, was wrong. It was neither gentle nor understanding. You cannot squeeze a tantrum out of a child.,

Brute force teaches a child nothing good at all. Fear would have been your child’s overwhelming emotion at that point which is even more triggering for him.

I’m sad you and your DS suffered this extreme reaction. You did well to hold it together enough to apologise to the hurt little cousin and to quickly and calmly remove your son from the company. Your cousin either thought he was helping you by preventing your child hitting out or he wanted to teach your child a lesson. You can’t be sure what his motive was so it’s good not to have confronted him at that moment. I would let it go but not be in his company again for a while.

There is so much helpful information online about how to deal with unwanted behaviours. Prevention is the key really. It’s a long hard journey to keep adjusting to your child’s special needs and to prevent other children being hurt. You learn from experience to observe much more closely, and act more swiftly and decisively to avoid situations where your child might do the wrong thing. Pure hard work where you are always on duty and can’t take your eyes off what’s happening around your child!
It’s always best to arrive at a party on a good note and leave on a good note before anything goes wrong, even if you are only there for half an hour.
All the best to you and your little boy.

I think it would be kinder all round to plan to stay only a short time, leaving before your child gets overwhelmed.

I don't see anything wrong with other family members disciplining children, in fact I think it's a good thing and wish people would do it more, I'm sure it would result in much more well rounded and better behaved children

It’s not clear from your OP whether your relative restrained your child for simply having a meltdown or whether he was was actively hitting you (perhaps the relative them thought he was taking necessary protective action). I can kind of understand intervening in active violence but simply holding a melting down kid seems wrong.

As PPs have said I think a lot more confidence can come from pre planning, anticipating your kid’s triggers and maybe having a removal to safe quiet place protocol. I do feel for you, my DH is ASD and potentially my kids. We have times where their behaviour is excessive and hard to control and it’s a nightmare with judgy grandparents too.

'hitting him with a ball'

Exactly kind of ball was this? Child, what, threw a ball at another child? Sounds a bit like a storm in a teacup.

Either way, yes it does sound like the family member was heavy handed and over reacted, but agree with others it isn't going to be possible to control others' reactions. It doesn't sound like these family members will be sympathetic regarding your son's needs, are they all this way inclined or is anyone more sympathetic?

I think I'd avoid such occasions for now or only attend for a v short time and watch my ds closely throughout, rather than expecting to be able to socialise myself for now.

This. Routines and sweets on occasion are our the window because he's possibly autistic? What? I understand that ASD brings a lot of challenges but it does sound that OP is using is as an excuse for poor parenting. I would have thought routines and reduced sugar in his diet would be beneficial, not out the window.

He was protecting him kid. I don't blame him. Even if your son does get a diagnosis, he still needs boundaries and discipline, and not to be allowed to get away with being violent to others just because he's ND (if indeed he is). Why should the dad just sit back and watch your son batter his child? Bad behaviour is everyone's problem.

Honestly most kids are better off with routine and fewer sweets, I imagine more so for a possibly autistic child. Mines NT but she has her weekly schedule in her head because she likes to know what she’s going to be doing.

If you kid hits another kid the parent is obviously going to be upset. I’m not sure you would be ok with an 8yr old bashing your kid with a ball for example. I sure as hell wouldn’t be so I remove mine if it looks like she’s doing something she shouldn’t be or about to kick off. Sounds like to me he thought he was helping you because it doesn’t sound like you were in control of the situation. Not criticising you, there have been loads of times I haven’t been in control or reacted badly or did the wrong thing.

The point is whatever you were doing wasn’t effective. You were trying to get him to apologise mid meltdown. Literally no kid ND or NT can hear you in the middle of a tantrum or a meltdown, it’s pointless and I am big on manners, DD has been marched to people a few times to apologise. But we basically get her calm first, mainly by giving her or speaking very quietly and making minimal demands. Never expect a child mid flow to stop and apologise, they literally can’t do it, most adults can’t either. You seem to be simultaneously be expecting too little and too much of him.

Honestly no-one dealt with that very well. You sound a bit lost and helpless, your BIL sounded like he was trying to contain what he saw as violence which may not be the best approach.

I’m not trying to make you feel bad, parenting is bloody hard work. If it were me I would be looking at what I could do to minimise and then mitigate behaviour you can anticipate. You know he has meltdowns, so figure out a) how to minimise the risk of them happening and b) whats the strategy to deal with them (this may even be just moving away until he winds himself down). I bought the explosive child and it was really helpful just dealing with normal tantrums because it made us focus on triggers etc. mine basically had a hard time with transitions. Yours may have issues with touching or sound for example, so how do you deal with that whilst also enabling him to enjoy time with other people?

Treat this as a learning experience for you, rather than being angry at relative.

You recognise that your DS has additional needs, and you know he gets triggered by certain things. You need to find ways of supporting him through the triggers, and also what to do when it gets beyond that.

I have a DC who is neurodiverse. When they are triggered into a meltdown, I know how to respond, and am the only person who would be near enough to restrain my DC if needed (and sometimes it is genuinely required). I tune out the stares and whispers from bystanders; the only thing I focus on at the time is getting my DC back to a state where they feel regulated and calm. Then we go back to what we were doing. It's surprisingly easy once you've done it a few times.

My NT DC used to get really embarrassed when meltdowns happened early on, because I didn't know what to do. Now that I am very clear in my response to meltdowns, my other DC doesn't get embarrassed and feels secure with my response to their sibling.

Did you check if your son is ok and how he was feeling before ask him to apologise? He must be feeling he is in the right to do so, therefore a tantrum.

Isn't it possible that the man saw his child being hurt and saw the OP's son having a tantrum and hitting her so the man restrained the OP's son to prevent anyone else being hurt? And mistakenly used too much strength in doing it?
Where does it say the man lost control?

What a load of old bollocks.

I feel for you. I don't agree with you about the other kid's dad being wrong, but I feel for you. It must be really, really hard.
And most parents question whether they are shit parents, ND kid or not.
I'm sure you are a good and loving parent. You'll be alright.

You can tell reading these comments those who get it and those who don't. Those who don't are the ones who will judge when you are trying to manage difficult situations.

It's crap , you have to accept you will get stares and opinions. And ignorance unfortunately.

Going forward you need to manage your child's environment. So when you are doing social activities think in advance how long can your child cope. Leave before the meltdown starts. Don't make it a punishment or about your child just you leave at x time. Also consider could your child have a quiet space to go to to be away from the noise. Would it help if they have a screen for a bit. Find ways to make this stuff more manageable so it doesn't lead to meltdown. Keep a close eye on what's happening kids can be sneaky and may deliberately wind your child up and play the victim after. Look out and intervene where necessary.

And yes it's abhorrent to restrain a child in meltdown your relative should be ashamed of themselves.

As many pp have said, the man was clearly very annoyed that an older child had hurt his. It sounds as though you feel your soon deserves free pass.

Why did you apologise on his behalf, for example? He should have done that.

It's not everyone else's job to put up with violent and aggression from other people's badly behaved children.

It feels like part of the issue is you don't yet have a diagnosis and not much support, so everyone here was probably out of their depth in handling the situation. I feel for you, because it all sounds stressful.

He overreacted and probably thought he was being helpful trying to stop your son hitting you or others, and probably in all honesty thinks your son is a badly behaved NT child and you can't manage him, so that justified him stepping in. He is wrong, of course - right intention perhaps, wrong course of action. However, people who are not autistic or don't have any experience working closely with or parenting autistic children don't get it about meltdowns at all. And you don't yet fully know your son's disability and needs and therefore can't yet communicate this fully to the rest of the family.

Unfortunately, parenting ND kids does mean watching them very closely when there's potentially triggering situations and pulling them away if you spot a danger sign. Mine are both autistic and at 6, there's no way either of them would have been able to play for 2 hours with younger kids without incident or becoming overwhelmed. If he's autistic, he won't be able to regulate himself the same as other children of the same age and stage. As parents we need to do that for them before they get to the point of no return!

It sounds like there's more than one occasion where you haven't done this and he's become overwhelmed around other kids and it's resulted in hitting and a meltdown - horrible for everyone involved, but also horrible for your poor lad. Meltdowns suck, they're exhausting, and you feel so shameful afterwards (I'm also autistic and still have rare ones as an adult). Ultimately, you need to learn from that so that other adults don't end up intervening, unfortunately. Because if they think other people are at risk, they will - and it's hard to say they're unreasonable for doing so if they are trying to ensure others' safety.

I hope you get a diagnosis and some support soon.

This is a difficult one to be honest.

On one hand, you know your child issues and therefore you should have been monitoring more closely. It should not have for to the point of him lashing out.

You say the cousin had provoked him, you could have stepped in and told that child off long before it became an issue. Would the husband have been OK with you telling his kid off?

I can understand the husband stepping in if you child was hitting you to restrain them. It's not an unreasonable action.

However, with many ND kids physical contact can make their meltdowns far worse. So ultimately it depends on how much the husband s knows about the issues your kid faces.

It's not about getting it or not getting it though is it.

OP's child currently has an armchair diagnosis for being ND. As a result of it not being a formal diagnosis, she doesn't seem to have the support required to develop effective strategies to help her son or manage his behaviour. That's really the problem.

I think she said her son was 8, so at the age where he can really hurt, especially younger kids, as what happened here. And that's only going to get worse as he gets older. The world isn't going to give ND kids a free pass, especially parents with hurt children, and I feel like the OP can't criticise another parent's parenting and then be offended when she thinks the same is being done to her

She is judgy about her cousin's parenting, yet wanting a free pass for her own, but it's her child that isn't coping

If my child harms another they don't need my permission to be told off and I would feel the same if they harmed my child

And using they are ND does not mean their behaviour should be ignored

Is it helpful/meaningful to try to get your son to say sorry? Is it not better to physically remove him from the situation (ideally before it gets to the stage of him hitting a small child)? I think he was probably frustrated that your bigger child had hit his 4 year old and you were faffing around trying to make him say sorry when your son might have quite a limited concept of what being sorry means. As he’s a family member I would expect him to have some empathy and understanding though and I would have in his shoes removed my 4 yo from playing with yours from the outset if there had been previous hitting. You will probably find that strangers are far less understanding and might shout or physically restrain your DS if he hits their children.

We've learnt, the hard way, that we have to leave things early before DS enters the overwhelmed zone which results in such behaviour.
It has took us awhile to figure out but we can see now when he's on the decline.

We have also found a chew necklace and ear defenders to be a good help.

OP's child currently has an armchair diagnosis for being ND. As a result of it not being a formal diagnosis, she doesn't seem to have the support required to develop effective strategies to help her son or manage his behaviour. That's really the problem.

@Uncooperativefingers very much this.

I would expect other adults in a family environment to discipline children present where appropriate. (By this I mean have a strong word, remove toys, restrain/ remove a violent child). Particularly where their own children were involved.
If you think your child shouldn’t be or needs a different type of discipline then you need to let your family know.
The fact that you were right there and he stepped in shows he thought you were being ineffective (rightly or wrongly). I believe his intentions were good - he was trying to help.

Totally agree with all of this.