I feel like I’m missing something with out of control 6 year old.

[totallyunforgetable]

Hi, I have name changed for this as I’m a long term poster but mostly about my elder child and our struggles with potential ASD and anxiety. So feel this maybe be outing.

I have a 6 year old son who is our middle child who everyone just seems to adore he gets a lot of attention from others about the way he looks and he just has that air of coolness that people are drawn to. His teachers love him, his behaviour at school is impeccable his report said that he was a role model to other pupils that he is always on tasks, tries his best, is a kind friend that he could win their assembly award every week. His football coaches love him comment on his brilliant attitude how he’s always smiling and listens, great work ethic, managers player of the year on his first season. Never shows an ounce of anger on the pitch or at school. Outside of this at home he’s a totally different child he can be easy going and loving but the second something doesn’t go his way or he gets pulled up on something even small he loses his head. He will swear, hit me, throw things, break things just be outright nasty calling me names like I’m fat or a loser, he will spot on the floor it’s honestly like he’s a totally different person. Afterwards once he’s calmed down he will apologise but then be upset if I try to explain that he has hurt my feelings or feelings he just says he wants me to be happy with him but my feelings have to be discounted. He will only be good if I’m happy with him. It’s starting to feel like he’s just pretending to be this lovely great kid elsewhere or could there be something else going on like ASD but surely he wouldn’t be able to mask is every day at school, every football session, every birthday party or every time he’s at a friends house. My older son is an open book but it scares me how little I feel I know my 6 year old. I don’t know if he loves me or feels remorse. I don’t know what makes him tick. I admit I’ve been lax with consequences sometimes I’m all in but then I’ve been told by professionals that consequences don’t work and you should explain the impact of their behaviour as punishment just builds resentment but I’m starting to feel this is wrong and that I need to follow through with a consequence every single time. Any advise or similar experiences would be great.

Just to add he does feel emotion he gets upset at films but to the point where he will ask for it to be turned off. We were out the other week and a dad had their baby bouncing on his lap in front of us and the baby was laughing and smiling and my son was sat watching smiling to himself clearly getting joy from it and it was so nice as honestly I sometimes feel like I’m dealing with a narcissist 🙈

Is there any learned behaviour from his elder sibling?
Is there absolutely nowhere else he behaves like this? Grandparents? Where is his dad in all this?

Sorry, no paragraphs, so hard to follow.

Feel for you though.

Consequences do work. I’d try following through with that every single time for a while and see if that gets you anywhere. Particularly for anything violent.

Alongside that, you could try teaching him some strategies for managing anger or frustration. A social story might work too.

He will be the same for his Dad if I’m there but if I’m not he’s not perfect but nowhere near as bad. Grandparents again if I’m there he would play up but if not he would be ‘perfect’

My older sons behaviour isn’t actually disrespectful or naughty as such he’s more just intense lots and lots of questions, constant reassurance lots of rituals ocd type behaviour. I do have a teen step daughter who moved in with us full time about 2 years ago who also has ADHD who is very disrespectful to me and aggressive has put holes in walls so it could be learnt from them.

Brilliant thanks for your input.

Do you think there’s an element of attention seeking about it?

Autistic children can mask in multiple situations. I’m an autism professional and a mum - whether your child is autistic or not, they need boundaries. You can ignore the name calling/swearing but if he breaks things, he has to wait for them to be repaired or replaced. If he hits you, he doesn’t get to go to football for a week. If he spits on the floor he wipes it up and puts the tissue in the bin, no further consequence.

Be consistent, state consequences, don’t threaten and then not go through with the consequence. Use reasonable consequences such as no electronic devices until the next day, don’t use unreasonable consequences such as no TV for a week. Stay calm - you are the adult, he is the child.

It can’t be he gets a lot of positive attention.

Its almost as if he feels like anything less that perfect and it’s all ruined so what the hell might as well self destruct.

Everything is always someone else’s fault as well, if they hadn’t done this or you’re upset with me so I’m angry with you now. He also lies quite frequently.

Mum to 2 ASD kids here and what you’re describing sounds to me like it could possibly be masking and the classic fizzy bottle effect.

My two kids present completely differently. One behaves the same regardless of where we are and doesn’t have meltdowns. The other masks in public, but at home their behaviour is very difficult and violent meltdowns are frequent.

What happens with the holes in the walls? This must be interesting for an intelligent 6 year old to watch. Are there any consequences for your stepdaughter?

@AngelusBell Should I really ignore the swearing as I had resolved to go back to removing his iPad for the rest of the day every time he swears and the spitting?

Just focus on the violent behaviour?

@AngelusBell they are mostly in her room but obviously he knows they are there and has heard her doing it. Not really there used to be but no so much anymore. This is a huge point of contention for me and my husband.

@Onehappymam is there anything you’ve found that helps.

If you’ve already told him swearing = no iPad and spitting = no iPad then follow through with that until the time you said he can have it back. Put the iPad in an inaccessible place so he doesn’t know where it is. Good behaviour,crying, apologies, no iPad until the stated time.

@Onehappymam I know how to help my eldest. Lots of affection and being calm but my 6 year old doesn’t respond to anything I do.

A bright 6 year old will pick up on this. You need to be clear that the rules for your teen SD might be different but the rules for your 6 year old son are consistent.

I totally agree with this but still think clear rules and firm boundaries are better long-term for the fizzy bottle child. Nothing harsh like no football for a month or no iPad for a week - a short-term consequence is reasonable for a 6 year old.

I definitely will start being more consistent. So many times I’ve removed things but then given it back for good behaviour, it’s all just a bit ridiculous on my part and lazy parenting. I’ve read so many different parenting books recommending different approaches it all just gets a bit confusing and I’ve got into a cycle of criticising him and his behaviour but not actually just setting boundaries/ consequences.

My friend tells constantly to try the 1,2,3 magic but any type of counting just seems to raise him up.

The fizzy bottle effect is definitely something that resonates with me as he’s much more on edge and volatile after school than before. Though if I pick him up on his own without his siblings he’s incredibly calm and agreeable.

Where on earth has he learnt the expression fat / loser from? that is unacceptable that I can't believe you're posting about it. So - no telling him that he's hurt your feelings - you have to step up as a parent and tell him thats unacceptable.

I had a very bright neurotypical DD who used to go into a rage with 1.2,3 and yell, “Don’t you dare count” - she was an angel everywhere else. Kids know how to push buttons with the person they feel safest with. Stay consistent with your affection and your consequences. If you do this … this will happen (positives as well as negatives.) Well done for … I’m proud of you for … I was happy when you …

Natural consequences work well with my ASD DC1, as opposed to arbitrary punishments. You broke X? You need to help fix it, etc. It's got to make sense.

The thing about ignoring swearing and mean comments is contextual, I think. DC1 can be foul-mouthed and very hurtful, and I always point out, quite flatly and without expecting a response, that I'd rather they didn't use language like that / say mean things about personal appearance etc. Then I leave it.

The possible natural consequence, which I do spell out, because DC1 wouldn't necessarily make the link, is that if they are expecting me to do something for them like drive them somewhere, soon after an outburst, I might say I've lost the inclination as I'm still too cross at being called a fucking cunt or whatever it was. It'll have to be later, or after they've made it right with me. But I don't say that just to make a point, only if I'm genuinely smarting.

@Solent123 I’m guessing you either don’t have children or they are very little or grown up as have you heard how 6-10 children talk to each other. Yes it’s totally unacceptable but so shocking that I’ve posted about it, is a bit extreme. yes if I could start over things like YouTube wouldn’t be a thing in our house but then there’s my step daughter who says so so so much worse how do I protect them from that and school kids are horrible to each other.

I have told him that it’s totally unacceptable over and over but obviously like other posters have said clear consequences are needed each time.

I admit I’ve been lax with consequences sometimes I’m all in but then I’ve been told by professionals that consequences don’t work and you should explain the impact of their behaviour as punishment just builds resentment but I’m starting to feel this is wrong and that I need to follow through with a consequence every single time.

This stood out. The reason he does so well in school and football club is that they have a strict behaviour policy and very clear expectations and consequences if they are not followed. He knows exactly where he stands with them. He doesn't with you because it isn't consistent. He sounds similar to my seconds ds who is amazing at school but at home would last out screaming he hates us, he's going to get a knife and stab us and kill us etc - it was horrible (but just words - he never hurt us in any way). But we learned he was dyslexic and it was just frustration that he felt like he wasn't being listened to, or he couldn't quite verbalise his point so we misunderstood what he was saying. He is a teenager now and that behaviour is in the past, no more lashing out (just gobby these days). He has really grown out of it because he can now verbalise his frustrations.

I think @fiddleleaffig is spot on. It's possible your ds has Autism or it could be high anxiety or it doesn't even need to be a something that can be pathologised and a diagnosis - what is very clear is that he responds to structure, clear rules and consistency. The fact that he's perfect in school and clubs, never showing a bit of anger, shows that he is responding in a really positive way to these environments. A child with autism can mask but it would be unusual for their behaviour to be exemplary in all other environments than home, and it's not as though he's just started school and it's still the honeymoon period, presumably he's been there a couple of years and is always impeccable, not just in the classroom but in the playground and social situations. He understands emotions and can show kindness and empathy.

If he's the type of child who feels secure with highly structured environments and very clear boundaries, and knows not to cross these, then a lack of consistency will be unsettling and anxiety inducing.

You have my sympathy as it sounds tough but I would say consistency is key. If things stay calm but with a very clear immediate consequence for being rude or disobedient then the message will be absolutely crystal clear