I feel like I’m missing something with out of control 6 year old.

[totallyunforgetable]

Hi, I have name changed for this as I’m a long term poster but mostly about my elder child and our struggles with potential ASD and anxiety. So feel this maybe be outing.

I have a 6 year old son who is our middle child who everyone just seems to adore he gets a lot of attention from others about the way he looks and he just has that air of coolness that people are drawn to. His teachers love him, his behaviour at school is impeccable his report said that he was a role model to other pupils that he is always on tasks, tries his best, is a kind friend that he could win their assembly award every week. His football coaches love him comment on his brilliant attitude how he’s always smiling and listens, great work ethic, managers player of the year on his first season. Never shows an ounce of anger on the pitch or at school. Outside of this at home he’s a totally different child he can be easy going and loving but the second something doesn’t go his way or he gets pulled up on something even small he loses his head. He will swear, hit me, throw things, break things just be outright nasty calling me names like I’m fat or a loser, he will spot on the floor it’s honestly like he’s a totally different person. Afterwards once he’s calmed down he will apologise but then be upset if I try to explain that he has hurt my feelings or feelings he just says he wants me to be happy with him but my feelings have to be discounted. He will only be good if I’m happy with him. It’s starting to feel like he’s just pretending to be this lovely great kid elsewhere or could there be something else going on like ASD but surely he wouldn’t be able to mask is every day at school, every football session, every birthday party or every time he’s at a friends house. My older son is an open book but it scares me how little I feel I know my 6 year old. I don’t know if he loves me or feels remorse. I don’t know what makes him tick. I admit I’ve been lax with consequences sometimes I’m all in but then I’ve been told by professionals that consequences don’t work and you should explain the impact of their behaviour as punishment just builds resentment but I’m starting to feel this is wrong and that I need to follow through with a consequence every single time. Any advise or similar experiences would be great.

Thank you this has all been really helpful.

We had a difficult start to nursery after lockdown with him refusing to go in and me chasing him around the playground but once inside he apparently would sit and sulk for 10 minutes but then would be delightful and fully engaged the whole session. This lasted a few weeks and then everything has been plain sailing ‘ perfect’ ever since and he’s about to go into year 2.

It almost feels like he loves the fact that in school and football he’s seen as this lovely kind happy boy but at home it’s like he feels like that reputation is already so flawed that it’s a waist of time or maybe I’m just looking at it totally wrong.

He reacts to certain things in ways that I don’t fully understand for example yesterday we had a lovely day went for ice cream and down to the beach but while down they were all collecting stones but then an argument broke out about who one stone belonged to and so the 6 year old threw in petulantly no real force onto the floor catching the 8 year olds leg and they had a bit of a tussle. We separated them age them leave this rock behind and then continued to walk but the 6 year old just kept sitting down having a bit of a silk, our three year old goes and sits next to him puts his arm around him and tells him he’s his best friend and it seemed to just fuel his anger almost like he felt he didn’t deserve that kindness and the sulking went to hitting and kicking me repeatedly using the F word while he walked behind us this lasted 5 - 10 minutes then he just said sorry and stopped.

@totallyunforgetable apart from the swearing, using the F word, that beach incident sounds like a very normal kind of quarrel for a family with 3 young kids! At that age they'll often argue over something ridiculous like whose stone is it.... The reaction to the 3 year old sounds normal too. Your 6 year old knows he's in trouble, he's done something wrong (and I think you were responding in the right way by leaving the stone, calmly continuing to walk and not giving him attention) so the 3 year old then being nice is going to feel 'wrong' a bit like a mixed message, but obviously the 3 year old isn't to know that, so I'm not saying he did anything wrong, just trying to unpick how the 6 year old feels. He knows he's in the wrong, he's perhaps embarrassed and can't react in a friendly way in that moment.

The one consistent thing about him is that it seems after a period of time he calms down by himself and apologises without needing to be prompted. so it seems more of an anger issue than anything else- he fires off quickly with the family, probably because there aren't the really strict clear rules in all the other environments and then needs time to calm down.

When he's in a positive mood have you talked to him in clear simple terms about what he's doing? Really spelt out that throwing things and the really nasty swearing is completely unacceptable and explained that a sanction will be put in place - which could be time out/ removing something he wants etc? Then - this is the hard bit - follow through exactly as you've told him whenever he kicks off? It may take a while but I would expect the anger incidents to become fewer or not to last as long. He needs to get the message that life isn't perfect, and that niggles with siblings are very normal but that his response to them isn't.

Could be Autism, could be ADHD, could be lack of consistent rules contributing as others have pointed out. That you have a step daughter with ADHD who articulates their struggles through their behaviour at home means that your DS could be like this too. He could also be anxious when witnessing it and this could up his fight response. I would focus on helping him regulate his emotions, so when he feels like he wants to hit he knows to take himself off to his safe space and hit, for example, a boxing bag. Only when he is calm can you then talk problems through, being curious with him what was happening before he felt the emotion, what would be a better choice in future. (Learning to regulate emotions is a skill we all have to learn in order to live in society and it takes time to do - it's not a quick fix.)

Have you spoken to school at all about his behaviour at home? I know you've said he's well behaved elsewhere, but he has lots of others around him showing how to behave (and get praise) in that environment so he knows what to do. What's he like during unstructured times at school eg lunchtime? Does he play well with others?

As children progress through the years in school, we can start to see more behaviours shown as children get older and the gap widens between them and their peers. Some children are known to mask well at primary school but then struggle in secondary school, so do keep that in mind. If you have a local autism support group in your area it's worth linking up with them as they can be a good source of knowledge and support, including on the ADHD side of things as they can sometimes go hand in hand.

I agree 100% about the impact of the step sister's behaviour. If she's aggressive, swearing and actually destroying the house putting holes in walls, this is an incredibly stressful environment for young children. If the 6 year old is a naturally more anxious type, the impact on him will be more obvious- but I wouldn't underestimate the impact on your 8 and 3 year old either. It may not be evident now but I'd bet it will be having an impact on their wellbeing. This issue is just as urgent as dealing with the 6 year olds behaviour.

You need clear consistent boundaries and consequences.
He knows he wouldn't get away with behaviour like that at school or football. You need to step up and be a parent!
Hugs and kisses are the easy part of loving a child, the much harder part is implementing discipline but that s the kind of love they need just as much.

I think your acceptance of children accessing and using that kind of language is interesting. DS will be six in a couple of months and I'd be horrified if he used that language. One of the many reasons I don't let him watch YouTube.
You need to be clear about behavioural expectations and consequences. The initial beach squabble fairly standard other than the 'scuffle' but what were the consequences to him repeatedly hitting you and swearing at you?
Mine would've gone straight home. Honestly it doesn't sound like he respects you.

OP you have just described my DD, and it was at it's worst age 6! She is now 8, and we are waiting for ASD assesment. Fortunately we were able to get some subsidised Psychotherapy through a charity based where we live. Her psychotherapist has really helped us to push the school for referral for assessment. School can't believe what we describe about her behaviour at home and sometimes I felt like I was going mad! You kay also be able to get some support from your local Autism charity as they do not need a diagnosis to support you. It's really hard OP not sure I'm able to provide much advice, as we're still trying to navigate this ourselves. I would say her behaviour seems to have improved in the last 6 months or so, I think just with normal development, so hang in there!

I wonder whether time out might be more effective than removing things like the iPad here. It’ll give him the space to calm down, there isn’t the temptation to get into a debate about the punishment being unfair and it’s done after 6 mins (hopefully) so it’s not hanging over you for several days.

As a teacher l have seen a child with an ASD sibling behave like this at home. Older sibling diagnosed due to social/ language difficulties but no behaviour issues. Younger sibling a model child in school but mothers description is exactly like your ds. We missed it in school for a long time as he was so different to his older sibling.
Only with long discussions with his mom he went for assessment..if we only had school that wouldn't have happened. He has autism, presenting so differently. Get him assessed. I know you will still have to deal with the behaviour but understanding is vital.
As soon as he comes from school set up a space for him to debrief..maybe a weighted blanket..quietness. Begin to treat him as if you know he has autism . Try and spot what brings on the outbursts and get ahead of it if you can by having a quiet place for him. If he has autism and is a model kid at school he will be really suffering when he gets home.

Who told you that consequences don't work?

I'm an sen teacher and I they are super important as kids don't always understand (or care) the impact of their actions on others, especially with asd etc involved.

You need consequences and the conversation about the impact of their choices.

Sounds like they feel like they can push the boundaries as consequences aren't consistent.

Nothing you are saying is really screaming out asd (I'm a sen teacher and have an autistic dc). He sounds like a very normal child with very normal reactions (except the swearing - that is not normal!). It sounds like you are more concerned about finding an "excuse" for the behaviour than actually tackling it.
Pursue a diagnosis by all means, but especially if he is asd then boundaries and firm behaviour expectations are even more important. And stop making excuses for him

@MyOtherCarisAVauxhallZafira ok so if I’d taken him directly home what about the other 2 children do they just have to go home as well, this works very well if you have only one child.

In terms of how you seem to think I’m freely allowing my child to access this language. I’m not letting them sit and watch YouTube videos with swearing in this would never happen as it’s within my control. My 6 year originally heard the F word from a child on foundation who has since been moved to a different school to accommodate his needs and then two years ago due to the death of her Mum my Step daughter moved in full time and as much as I would like to suggest I had any sort of control of her behaviour or language I do not.

I honestly didn’t come on here looking for excuses for my son I’m actually hoping there’s nothing else going and that his behaviour is just to do with my poor parenting. It’s just with having 2 chiidren in the family with SEN already it does make you think.

@totallyunforgetable ok so you couldn't take him straight home, what were the consequences for repeatedly hitting you and swearing

There’s been a lot of different opinions as to whether it sounds like ASD or just a lack of consistent parenting but everyone agreeing that boundaries and consistent agreeing are key. So this is where I will start as well as well as teaching him better ways to cope with his anger.

@MyOtherCarisAVauxhallZafira He lost his IPad time.

To answer the question of who suggested consequences don’t work. We were first told this by CAMHS years ago when my step daughter started having sessions due to anger and anxiety this was a couple of years before her mum was even ill and then more recently I have read ‘ The Explosive Child’ which also suggests they are pointless. Im not saying I agree with this way of thinking but I guess there’s been a lot going on in the last 2 years and I’ve lost my way and I was just looking for answers.

Sorry you're going through this, OP.

I wonder from your description of his outbursts, if he is demand avoidant? It's really common in ASD & ADHD and stems from the need to be in control, which itself is caused by deep anxiety & stress. It's interesting that in your first post you talked a lot about how everyone perceives him as being well behaved/a role model and I'm wondering whether he gets praised a lot. It's counterintuitive but demand avoidant children find praise very difficult - it basically creates a demand that they feel they have to live up to, often leading to that 'fizzy bottle' effect PP have mentioned.

There's some good advice here about having good boundaries and creating space for him to decompress after school - basically using ASD parenting strategies which you might already be familiar with. Think about his sensory environment too - would he benefit from using ear defenders at school? Or fidget toys? You could also look up PDA (but bear in mind not all demand avoidance is pathological) and look into low demand parenting. I would also start a conversation with school, particularly as year 2 is often a crunch year for neurodivergent children. Good luck!

In case it helps as a comparison, I have a son similar age who I'm pretty sure is neurotypical. He is young in his year and very boisterous and doesn't find sitting still and writing easy. He does get shouty and very wild sometimes. He doesn't swear or physically lash out at me though (will sometimes throw things). Also he does sometimes have issues concentrating at school and at extracurriculars. He's worse when tired, when he's not fully occupied and with his brother or some of his wilder friends.

My middle child who is now nine was very like this. Read up on the zones of regulation- it helped us alot. Basically you are trying to give them tools to calm themselves down before they loose control. My son started to take himself off to a tent he has with a lava lamp and Lego when he feels out of whack. He also likes pressure - putting a weighted blanket on him. It took ages because these things only start to work when he can recognise himself that he is loosing it.

he’s much better now. Can still do a shouty, stomping thing but the throwing things and completely losing his mind is gone. I did use consequences and mad threats to stop him breaking things. did they work? In a way they did, I stopped him throwing heavy things through the window a few times but long term he needed tools to learn how to regulate.

also think about creating a calming ritual after school or whatever the trigger is. Flash points like this are not the time to be too demanding.

There’s been an awful lot going on over the last few years hasn’t there, your middle starting school then it sounds like your husband’s ex getting ill and dying at the same sort of time as you were having a baby, then his daughter moving in full time while in the midst of horrendous grief. No wonder things have been hard. So firstly give yourself a break if you haven’t been exactly on top of everything perfectly. I agree with PP it sounds like he just wants consistency and some practice in how to calm himself down. The scenario you mention on the beach for example, if he was feeling angry then sometimes when we’re angry we don’t want a cuddle etc - why would a small child necessarily feel any different. Sounds like he needs some space and tools to calm down (I wonder if he’s old enough to learn breathing techniques to help breathe the anger out wanky as it sounds) if the mood passes within about 10 mins (same as you describe at nursery).

I think you are getting lots of good advice and have a good action plan.

I wanted to add to that the observation that he feels highly threatened by negative emotions in others towards him and very very concerned that others view him completely positively. So if I were you I might try and add I'm some stuff around loosening up that anxiety.

First of all you might look at reading him books where the main character isn't perfect or always trying to be perfect. My two loved Horrid Henry (although I found it Quite Annoying). The Wizard of Once series has a lovely set of imperfect children, too. I'm sure there are others.

My eldest is autistic with a certain amount of anxiety about how others perceived him so when in social panic just comes out with the tallest tales although that has massively lessened now he is a bit older. Just for ref on your comment about lying.

I wonder if you could also introduce some light hearted-ness about not being perfect? My son responds very well to me sort of joking about his mistakes, doing an over the top/pantomime version of myself being annoyed. It takes a lot of the heat out of discipline for a child anxious he's not good enough. You could do this with all your family, kind of model it when your DP does something minor like spill something or something. It doesn't really matter what, it's just to introduce the idea that everyone will be okay and still loved, even a bit more loved when something goes wrong, because you all end up laughing about it. For example I remember retrieving a million socks from my sons room which he hadn't put in the laundry basket and doing an over the top OH MY GOD DUDE YOU MAY NEVER COMPLAIN ABOUT LACK OF SOCKS AGAIN and doing a jokey, made to make him laugh monologue about going mad and buying 4 million pairs of socks bc all the while they were in his room. Now it's a shared, in joke and he will sometimes tease that he has taken his socks off and is looking for somewhere to hide them and I will do my pantomime enraged face and he will laugh and put his socks in the laundry. I do things like this because it takes the heat out of correcting his behaviour, because he is incredibly anxious about "being told off" and also he has not a dx but all the symptoms of PDA.

Sorry for the long example but I just wondered if you and your son might find it beneficial to try and shift him into a place where him being negatively viewed by others does not feel like such a threat to him

I have your child two years older 🤣

He is a work in progress and we’ve been at this about 4.5 years now.

Things that work;
Staying very calm even with extreme provocation.
Consequences that aren’t punishments. If he throws everything on the floor (which he does) he will pick it all up. It probably won’t be straight away as he will be caught in his emotion. But will stay littering the floor until he does.
Being consistent and having a strong routine.
Being good role models. We don’t swear so he doesn’t swear. He knows swear words but doesn’t use them.
Lots of parenting courses and training. Using the correct language and understanding what’s going on so instead of being angry we are understanding.
The ability to forgive the behaviour as you understand the behaviour. Praise positive behaviour.

Things that don’t help;
Shouting and acting scary when annoyed
Punitive punishments that have no relation to the poor behaviour they are supposed to be correcting
Disregulated adults modelling poor anger management themselves
Poor routine where the child has no clue what’s going to happen and feels anxious
Poor sleep and eating habits

Little ones learn from the world around them.

Out of the house, people overwhelmingly are positive towards them and he responds with positivity. They don’t have to do the ‘telling off’ or the ‘parenting’ they are solely positive figures, so he isn’t challenged by them.

You however challenge and parent him, you have to do the boring things and the things he doesn’t like. You expect things of him that he doesn’t want to do, and rightly so. So he responds defiantly because he doesn’t like this. And he knows you will still hug and love him despite this.

Add to the mix a ND elder sibling and a new to the house step sibling who shows very challenging behaviour, and all of a sudden there is less attention available from you, towards him. And a lot of that is naturally asking him to do something/stop doing something. Perhaps those siblings don’t respond to consequences so he sees them challenging you or not getting the same consequences as he does - it may seem like there are different rules for him to them.

And knowing a bigger child is punching holes in walls must be really frightening.

It sounds like he is trying to find his place in your new family set up, and testing your boundaries towards him.

Step siblings behaviour needs addressing quickly. Help regulate the tension in the house hold.

Same expectations for all children in the house hold - basic expectations like respecting each other and listening.

One on one time just for the two of you, where he leads, you do fun things, and there are no expectations on him aside from to have fun. Enjoy him!

Perhaps young carers for him, so he spends time with other children who know what it’s like to live with ND siblings? And support for you as a parent to understand how he may feel about this?

don’t want to reiterate what others have said but I would add he sounds like a a lot of 6 year olds learning to regulate emotions. He may have neurodiverse traits but doesn’t mean he need a diagnosis but maybe some understanding/ support with that in mind might help. He’s 6 I think punishing him regularly for his feelings won’t help. Stop taking his behaviour personally and support him to learn to regulate instead.