Are we babying DD10

[wonderinglywondering]

We have 3 DC, our eldest is DD10. She has always been a lovely imaginative, sweet natured confident girl who loves reading, princesses/Barbie, she dances and has done drama since she was tiny. When she started school her primary was so small there were 7 children in the entire year, and all the kids played together and got on pretty well, as it was such a small group there were no cliques as such, DD had 1 best friend and together they enjoyed crafting, making up dances and filming them (not putting them online) dressing up, etc.

We've now moved and DD is in a slightly bigger school and has a nice circle of friends. She was bullied at first by the eldest and biggest girl, who dominated the whole group. Her parents allowed her a phone, unlimited internet access, TikTok, the lot. There were some really worrying incidents such as using sexually inappropriate language, claiming she had a 25 year old boyfriend. When this girl was around, we noticed DD becoming rude, stroppy, and no longer interested in her toys etc, which is fine, she is growing up. But she was very happy to get a Barbie house for her birthday, until she told the group including the bully, and the bully laughed and told her it was babyish.

She asked for skincare for Christmas, which I got her, some lovely stuff from a specific brand I found aimed at tween skin. I think it's a good idea to start taking care of your skin. She is always asking for her ears pierced - personally at 10 I would let her, but DH hates piercings so is dead against it. I have promised her we'll revisit it when she's at secondary school.

So anyway the bully has left and I've noticed DD is happily playing make-believe games and Barbies again. But it seems her friends are all much more mature. She came home in tears last week because at swimming they all use deodorant, and she doesn't. I explained she doesn't really need it until puberty but they all told her she should have started wearing it at age 8. She likes makeup, I let her wear coloured lip balm or gloss and occasionally a bit of eyeshadow, but I overheard one girl saying to her "I can't believe you don't know what contouring is"

All the girls have phones or ipads, and some have social media. So far DD has an ipad but she can only play games on it, I have allowed her Roblox and to play online with friends, so long as she gets their usernames at school and writes them down and adds them. She is not allowed to add anyone she doesn't know or accep requests. We check her ipad weekly. We do let her watch Youtube and she likes filming vlogs and fashion shows, but not allowed to upload it.

The girls have been asking if she can join their group chat. I am in two minds about this as I don't want her to be left out but don't want her online all the time and being told she's not got this or that.

She's also made it clear she still believes in Santa, and I think soon one of them will let her know the truth, because they won't realise she still believes!

This is way too long but essentially - should I just get her what her friends have and let her chat with them online etc? I worry she is getting laughed at, but I just can't understand why 10 year olds need deodorant, 15 step skincare routines, social media.

If you have read this far thank you. Moving has been so tough on DD and I just want her to be happy with a nice circle of friends, which these girls are, just different to us.

edited to remove some more outing details

Deodorant fine and lots of nice suggestions about brands. Body sprays and endless trips to Boots to buy yet more scented goods I am less keen on.

My daughter is 11.5 and there's no make up beyond lip gloss, social media, no Roblox, no YouTube, and her on screen/tv access is tightly controlled as we've found it is becoming a bit of vicious circle with friends who seem to do nothing but watch make up videos and ape pouty influencers with a huge influence on her moods and attitude. She can't download apps for example.
So I would hold firm, she's still quite young and there's time at senior school to find "her gang". She has a text message group with her class but not WhatsApp as difficult as a parent to keep an eye on who's messaging her and the content is encrypted so her online safety software is not triggered.

We agreed that she could have her ears pierced before secondary school but would need to be at the start of the summer holidays so they have time to heal and that she needed to be old enough to clean them and to do the rest of the care so they wouldn't close up or get infected. School rules are very strict about removing them for all sports and activities so she saw the logic. Presume we'll be asked again in a. couple of months. Provided I can find somewhere decent I don't have a huge issue with it although DH is less keen on the kids growing up too fast. If you have differing views to your husband I'd suggest you agree on a way forward before she puts you both on the spot.

Thank you for all the responses!

I know the Santa thing is a problem. I was an only child and believed until i was 11 and I felt such an idiot when I found out. I will find a way to tell her in summer. DH thinks she knows anyway.

I'm not against deodorant, I was more using it as an example - I have ordered her a Wild one I think she will love. She has been wearing a crop top bralette for a while now.

To a PP - I have signed her up to Cubs quite recently to balance out the very image conscious dance and drama hobbies, she seems to enjoy it which is good.

It's such a difficult age, she seems to
gave one foot in childhood and the other in teenagedom!

I think it’s fine to believe in Santa until year 6. They all still believe in dds year 5 class. Let them be little. There is no rush to grow up

It’s really tricky, but I think the horse bolted here when she moved schools and it’s not really fair to hold to that previous ‘utopia’ in a way. Your dd is essentially paying the price by being slightly the odd one out and I would be very flexible on all the points that pp have made to try and bridge this gap for her, whilst sticking to your guns on anything you feel really strongly about.

In an ideal would I wouldn’t have let my dd have a phone/social media either (she’s 18 now, so am past this stage, just reflecting on when she was 10/11) but unless you genuinely live like the kids of the tech giants (eg phone free environments and schools) then it’s impossibly hard. It hampers them making friends. And all that happens is they lie. I realise on MN no one’s kids lie, but back in the real world they do, and they have back up accounts for all their social media. On balance, as they get older, it’s better to have greater honesty than it is to insist on standards that sound lovely but create friendship issues/encourage lying.

Good luck!

Do you know she still believes in Santa or is she humouring you? At that sort of age it was a bit difficult to tell for me. She went along with it, even used Santa as a back stop for things she didn't think I could get, but I don't think she believed.

Deodorant why not if she wants it. Group chat, not sure it could be nasty, bragging, one up man ship, but excluding could be worse.

You are parenting a 10 year old entirely appropriately and not babying her.

She sounds lovely and just like my DD aged 10. Loves crafting, reading, playing with her stuffed toys. Will happily have a teddy bear's picnic in the garden. Still believes in Santa.

No phone no social media.

Stay strong, you sound great.

I don't think you are babying her - I thjnk the other girls are too grown-up! You sound like a great parent.

I barely know what contouring is!

My adult DD and SIL run the local cubs. They are a "with-it" switched on couple. not living in Baden-Powell days, and the things they do with the cubs reflect that. The cubs have loads to do - they sing, country dance, shoot, tie knots (yes they still do that), go out trekking, work towards skills badges (first aid, orienteering and lots more - I know, I am the one who sews on the badges!), light camp fires and cook stuff, do community stuff (a breakfast for elderly people locally etc.). It does deflect them from navel-gazing ruminations over their looks etc. and they are a jolly bunch of youngsters who give each other lots of support.

It seems to me it is a good antidote to other stuff that is coming their way.

I agree that the other girls sound too grown up.

I’d suggest reading “The Anxious Generation”- allow her some real life freedoms (I’d include ear piercing in that but contouring at age ten?! WTF!) but avoid smartphones and social media like the absolute plague that they are.

My dd is year 6 and certainly not the only one believing in santa.

My oldest had “nothing” in primary compared to her peers. No mobile, no iPad, no TV in her bedroom.

Wasn’t interested in makeup but did have toiletries such as deodorant, skincare but all simple.

No piercings until secondary school.

If I could turn the clock back now, I’d have let them have a phone. It will always be my BIGGEST regret.

They didn’t know how to use it in comparison with their peers, it caused no end of problems. Awful.

The deodorant thing I don’t see an issue with, good habit to get into I guess? I used to have roll on from when I was pretty young because I saw my sister use deodorant and instantly decided I wanted to use it.
As for this group chat my first thought (based on my experience at that age, I was a very young 10 like your daughter) they might not be particularly nice to her. Girls can be horrible (boys can too before someone says that, but they don’t tend to be horrible in the same way). Girls often bully through exclusion and subtle tac tics. This chat just seems like an opportunity for bullying. My 14 year old niece has so much group chat drama, girls making new chats and leaving one out, removing, weird little spats I don’t really understand. 14 is too young to be putting up with it, 10 definitely is. I’d proceed with caution.

She should be able to get her ears pierced, it’s irrelevant whether your husband likes piercings or not

See this is interesting, DD has a TV in her bedroom, with her Switch connected to it and kids Netflix/Disney etc. DH is a gamer so she likes to play video games, she is limited to 45 mins a day in the week, more at weekends. When her friends come round they can't believe she has a TV in her room, so on that front I'm sure her friends parents think she's too young for that! It's a total minefield.

I have and do have regular chats with her about growing up, peer pressure etc. I will admit to missing the ball about deodorant, I haven't noticed her smelling and wasn't i'm playing that I think others are wrong for allowing it; it was more the way the other girls sort of shamed her and said she HAD to have it by age 8 rather than what she believed to be true, which was when she started needing it IYSWIM?

I think DH in particular really struggles with her getting older. He misses his baby girl! But I think over the summer before she goes into Year 6 I'll revisit the ear piercing, and relax things a bit about makeup (still no contouring!)

She definitely won't be getting a phone or any social media until the end of Year 6 though. I'm happy to let her message friends on her ipad (they all seem to be constantly on facetime too!) but still wary of the group chat dynamic thanks to her earlier bullying experiences.

Thank you to everyone who replied, it's been so helpful and reassuring to know I'm not hopelessly past it clinging onto her childhood!

@wonderinglywondering why do you separate out her contouring? Isn't that the makeup style they all do these days?

Back in my day (1980s) it was a certain shade of lilac eyeshadow and well dodgy eyeliner. It will be obvious she is a young girl, she will be experimenting and we all had dodgy starts with makeup.

Her wearing makeup, dressing older etc is never an excuse for others to treat her disrespectfully. That is a key message for her to learn. By not letting her experiment with her appearance you unconsciously are saying you judge those who do, if so why? It's fashion not an indicator of a person's values.

Its all a balance. The social media I'd say no. But deodorant absolutely. Don't be to sure about Santa. Mine at 10 swore she believed to the point my sister and I were concerned. Around 11 or 12 she cheerfully admitted she knew since 8 but didn't want less gifts if she told the truth.

It's not about the contouring. It's about the way in which that message was delivered "I can't believe you don't know what contouring is". I'm not judging - but DD shouldn't be made to feel she is lesser because she doesn't do it. I know all about experimenting with makeup, by about age 12 I was a goth with thick black liquid eyeliner and silver blusher! But I would never have taken the mickey out of someone who didn't want to wear makeup.

At that age you can still get away with knowing about it + ‘but my parents don’t allow it yet’. Not knowing about it at all is harder (although I agree contouring is silly, but it goes with the age group to pretend to know all about ‘grown up’ stuff).

So for your example, maybe just have a Saturday afternoon chat with her about different types of makeup, and integrate into that the conversations you are already having about peer-pressure, looks etc, and whichever else foundations and boundaries you wish to build on.

So then, she can happily join in with the conversations if they arise, instead of being caught off guard and therefore standing out.

Its up to you of course which topics you wish to engage in, but for pre-teens it does tend to revolve around the same ones. And if she can join in the playground/sleepover chat, it may balance out say the Barbie house in the corner of the room (especially as she has a cool TV!)

She sounds lovely btw, it’s just as PP have said about having to find a balance to adapt to the current world of pre-teens.

No harm in her having deodorant and tbh i would allow ear piercing at 10 if you trust her to keep them clean etc. If you’re fine with the idea and your DD wants them done then your DH ‘hating piercings’ isn’t a good enough reason to not allow it.

I totally agree with the phone/social media thing! It’s so unnecessary for tweens to be using it, it’s horrible to have that pressure as a parent. Tbh i wish it was completely normalised to not have a phone or any social media until much older teens.

I have a child the same age although a boy so we don't have the skincare/make up pressures. It's definitely an odd age of still a child but more aware of adult aspects of life. If she really still believes in Santa I'd be a little worried about her critical thinking skills although I've never made a big fuss about Santa as I'm a terrible liar. So it's not a big thing in our house. Does she think you'll be sad if she doesn't believe? I think large group Whatsapps are a terrible idea but I also think at this age they are ready to communicate independently so find a way to do that eg 1:1 texts or even email.

My dd 11 still plays with her hotwheels etc. Your dd is fine kids are growing up far too quickly now

Deodorant, lip gloss and basic skincare definitely, also ear piercing at 10, I would let her go and pick earrings, most girls have it done before now.
i would allow the class group chat but monitor it so link to my phone or iPad.
also I think kids just kid on they still believe in Santa to keep the magic and the gifts , I know all my kids did, and so did I, because it made it more exciting.

With earrings, check what the rules are at the secondary she is likely to go too. My DD's secondary do not allow earrings at all and are not unique on that. She didn't want earrings at all at primary. Now she'd quite like them but the summer holidays don't feel long enough for them to heal properly and then let her take them out for long periods when school starts again. So she's basically stuck until she's done her GCSEs now.

If the secondaries around you are strict on earrings you may need to do them earlier or miss your chance.