When did you put your baby forward facing in the car?

[ZEWatson]

My baby has always hated the car, from the drive home from the hospital until now at 15 months old. It's horrendous, she screams like someone is torturing her. She doesn't nap in the car and once she's decided she's upset there's no amount of singing/ snacks/ toys/ distraction that will stop her. All our family are over 3 hours away and we do a lot of groups/ activities so have no choice but to drive.

She's a good weight and height and her car seat says she can go from 15m. I know it's TECHNICALLY safer to stay rear for as long as possible, but surely if she's so upset and I'm constantly distracted/ trying to settle her whilst driving then it isn't actually safer because I feel I'm so much more likely to crash when she's irate. Anyone else have this dilemma?

For reference she is a typical 'allergy baby'. She's fussy, she's got reflux, she generally is a miserable sod 😆

I think this may be our problem too. She's only been sick in the car a few times but I do think she's feeling sick/ uneasy

Keep them rear facing if it's working for everyone.

If it's not working and she's over 15 months, it's reasonable to try FF and see if it helps.

The chances of being in an accident are low and 15 months is vastly better than the old standard of FF before the age of 1 year old.

As late as you can skew it is better, but no I don't think it's an unreasonable thing to try.

One thing to note is that if you are FF then it is extremely important to ensure that your car seat is fitted correctly (it's isofix, so it probably is) and that the headrest, harness are all set up correctly and are as tight as they should be. One of the big real-world differences between RF and FF is not only the direction but the fact that in RF the shell of the seat is doing much of the work, whereas in FF the 5 point harness is doing much of the work and it's extremely common for people to have set this up wrong or have it much too loose. Never put them in bulk clothing (e.g. coats) in the car seat too.

Honestly OP, just try forward facing. Ignore the posters that say incomprehensible. It's a spectrum of safety. Rear facing is safest, but putting your child in an approved front facing seat that has been extensively safety tested is not the same as letting them play with fire or not using a seat.

It's same as bedsharing. In crib is safest, bedsharing according to safe sleep guidelines is still safe and not the same as falling asleep with them on the sofa.

The chances of being in a crash is small, the type of crash resulting in internal decapitation even smaller. If rear facing is no longer working for you then safe front facing is next best option. You wouldn't leave a baby in a crib screaming like that, so why leave them in a car seat doing it.

I wouldn’t worry about him too much, he’s well qualified on the matter. As you can see, the car seat I link to also reduces the risk of decapitation. But thanks for your concern, I will let him know!

It's the safest seat IN IT'S CLASS. There's a difference.

My 5yro is still rear facing and will for as long as possible, though I would more readily consider FF from 4.5 years as in terms of bone development there is a cut off for safety.

It isn't "technically" safer to rear face, it is much safer. The forces a child's neck are subjected to in a collision are reduced by some 6x. The risk of internal decapitation which causes instant death or lifelong paralysis is substantially reduced. Internal decapitation can occur in collisions on 30mph roads!

Unless you have worked in the ED of a major trauma centre you won't see the outcome of significant car accidents, patients from these are not taken to non-specialist local hospitals. I am a paediatrician and because I have never worked in a trauma centre, I have never managed a child following a car accident (if there are some coming from very minor accidents they will be seen by ED). Never. Do I believe that car accidents involving children don't happen? No, of course not.

It is also worth remembering that children (and adults) with the most severe traumatic injuries which cause them to be deceased before first responders arrive, will be pronounced dead by first responders and make never come into any acute hospital setting at all.

You should not take your lack of exposure to children killed or seriously injured in car accidents as proof that it doesn't occur. It happens to about 500 children a year, or a classroom of children every few weeks.

I really feel for the issues you are having with your LO in the car, it sounds miserable but I personally wouldn't compromise safety on this issue. And I am very laissez-faire about lots of other parenting decisions!

If you feel that FF is the only way to drive safely (assuming it does curtail the screaming) then I would give serious consideration to maximising your safety in the car as much as possible in every other respect (eg less driving, much slower roads). Some other ideas could be putting a rear facing car seat in the front passenger seat, trying sea bands for nausea etc

My older DD rear-faced happily til aged 8 years but she's a compliant girl who doesn't suffer from travel sickness. I think you are sensibly weighing up the risks and benefits. In your situation I would really want to wait till 2 years but would be tempted to try now she's 15 months especially on 20mph roads. She sounds miserable in the car. Yes she would be at far greater risk of severe injury in the event of a crash but the likelihood of that happening is farely low (not tiny though as getting in a car is the most dangerous thing we do) but you know that she will be miserable on every journey and trying FF could alleviate that on a daily basis in exchange for the affor mentioned risks.

The forward facing seats on the market today are also much better than the older ones.

The UK now has a comparable (slightly worse, but not much) level of child passenger mortality to Sweden, statistically, which is surprising because presumably there is a lot more FF going on in the UK. But what I think this speaks to is that the benefits of RF are concentrated at the younger ages. 9 months (where the recommendation used to be) is much too young And UK parents still typically turn children FF at a younger age than parents in Sweden, though I do think more people stay FF until more like 18-24 months. But the fact that most 2-4 year olds are forward facing does not make as much of a difference as it seems like it should (statistically).

Page 17 here: https://etsc.eu/wp-content/uploads/ETSC_PINFLASH43-1.pdf

I think honestly this is because cars have improved so much with safety systems and car seats have improved (even the cheap/basic ones are generally better than they were 20 years ago) and so the numbers of children even being involved in accidents are so tiny that it's hard to make good comparisons. FF vs RF does still make a difference, but we are talking tiny numbers. And absolutely it's valid to take steps to reduce driver distraction. Not being in an accident in the first place is the best protection.

Could you turn the seat but minimize driving with her (get family to come to you, for example)?

I do work in a major hospital with a major trauma centre. I didn't do long in Paeds ED and thankfully didn't see car incident related fatalities (other than a 5YO hit and run)

The 'technically' was, relative in terms of yes its safer, obviously. But if I'm more likely to crash if she's screaming...its not actually safer...say I'm 10x more likely to crash if I'm distracted then actually the risk is more rear facing. As I said...its a risk/ benefit weigh up.
I appreciate everyone's opinions, especially those who are able to debate rationally 😊

She might be happier in and erf seat, more upright and mobile. Mine were un an axkidd untill about 4.5, one got too hefty, the other kept getting crushed nuts.

Fair enough. Only you can know how much the screaming is affecting your ability to drive safely and that is obviously also a consideration. I had another thought which is trying a spin car seat and you could consider then making a decision about which way to face her based on your journey, and/or you could even turn if she falls asleep etc (don't know if this is possible but may be for some seats). You also wouldn't lose out on your investment if it turns out that forward facing makes no difference, and you could revert to rear facing at a later point if this is something she grows out of. Good luck x

Can she see out of the window in her seat? Does she have anything to keep her occupied?
FWIW my DD was rear facing until she was about 4.5. But she was perfectly happy in her seat. Friends also moved their FF sooner, although most between 2-3 years old rather than under 2.

I switched my daughter a little before she turned four, just because she's so tall (not just legs) and couldn't find one suitable for the head limit.

I would have waited even longer if I could though, and I'm still looking for one to turn her back around!

Sorry pressed reply before I finished.

I've been using window stickers and noisy toys to distract my two for years now, basically anything to help them settle down quicker.

Always better to have them crying than potentially unsafe though, i know it's so hard when you're experiencing it but sometimes is unavoidable

You have a choice to choose a risk you don't have to choose. Not all risk is avoidable but a broken neck for a young child in a wrong facing car seat is. You've already decided and are trying to soothe your conscience. You'll probably be lucky. Hope so for your kid's sake.

She's already in a 360 car seat. It's the nuna todl with 360 base.

Hi OP - as you've got a 360 seat, as a pp said you could try forward facing and seeing if it helps the screaming. But then go back to rear facing if it makes no difference. It's not an irreversible decision.

Have you got one of those mirrors that attaches to the headrest of the rear passenger seat? If not, it might help as LO will be able to see you in the mirror. Made a big different with one of mine.

My eldest faced forward from 18 months because of severe car sickness, youngest (who isn't car sick) from about 2 I think.

This is quite savage.
I'm not trying to soothe any conscience, I'm purely interested. She's still rear facing anyway 😊
Her current car seat is 360 isofix and goes both ways!
It's not as black and white as some people make it...it really isn't.

Also, if I was trying to soothe a conscience I would 100% not come to mumsnet, no offence but that would be counterproductive.

Hi OP, hopefully this is a balanced response - We kept our DS1 rear facing until about 4, but turned DS2 at 2 as he hated it and like you say the constant distractions were much more hazardous, plus he kept escaping the seat which again is very dangerous. It is safer until 4 but it’s not an all or nothing scale - every month older they get it’s slightly less risky. That said I would try and eke it out a bit longer if you can - for me I was quite comfortable with 2ish.

We moved both DC to FF when they turned 3.

Hey.
Yeah we've got a mirror, got one when she was tiny as she used to have apnoeas with her reflux ☹️

As always on car seat threads, @BertieBotts has the best and most sensible answer.

I say this as someone who's spent a lot of money on ERF car seats and who intends to have them rear facing as long as I possibly can (my children's seats go well past 4!) - there are a lot of flippant comments about "ah everyone I know FF age 9 months and they were all fine", but there's also a lot of hyperbole and dramatics on the other end of the spectrum.

Rear facing seats being 5 times safer is a huge benefit and for me personally, I will always choose the safest option for my children for anything I can. But it's surely worth noting that if you multiply a really, really small risk by 5 you still have a really small risk.

Ours was rear-facing until 6. The spine isn't fully developed until then.