Can you talk me through behaviour management for an almost five year old?

[numberthirtytwowindsorgardens]

Because DS is completely out of control and I don't know what to do about it.

His behaviour has been gradually deteriorating - he used to be an angel - and since January has gone into a sharp decline. He now has the most OTT reaction to being told no - he will scream, hit at his worst, at his best, talk back, say 'no you won't' if I explain what will happen, destroy things.

I've always done straightforward consequences - hit me with something, that something goes away until he can prove to me he can behave - but I am at an absolute loss as to what to do now. If he does something bad - today, for example, having thrown the mother of all tantrums at leaving a playdate, he refused to get out of the car, and scrambled around all the seats until I physically hauled him out- what do I do? What is the consequence? He doesn't respond when we talk about it after the event; removing something he cares about escalates the situation to a hysterical meltdown and makes it both scary and unsafe for his younger sister, and anyway what do you do with the stuff you've confiscated when he's tall enough to climb over staircases and just goes into the room to get it back? Everything seems to escalate to.my physically restraining him, which is awful, and is never how we have parented.

Because I know it's the obvious first assumption to make - we always follow through on sanctions. A tantrum has never once in his entire life got him what he wants. He doesn't seem to be learning from that. He doesn't have screen time - maybe a film once a month or so. (Meltdowns ensue when it's over, so we very rarely do it.) The only things he loves are being read to and played with, which I'm not inclined to think withdrawing is a good idea, though I have tried to explain to him that if he isn't nice to people, they won't want to do nice things for him. (I also tell him constantly how much I love him, praise him for everything he does right, find things to tell him he's amazing at, all day.)

It's got to the point that I don't want to take him out, because he will kick off at some point, and his sister is living in a high tension, high conflict household. Happy to be told I'm a shit parent, but please accompany it with some practical strategies of what you would do if he were yours.

That was far too long. Sorry. TL:DR: my almost five year old is out of control. Please advise on how you would handle him.

You sound quite hellbent on consequences. He’s 5. Tantrums over disappointment (eg leaving a play date) are still well within the realms of normal. It sounds like he’s having a tough time over something if his behaviour has really deteriorated over 6 weeks. It’s not weak to give home some space and reassurance during this tough spell, even if you can’t work out what’s causing it. As you’ve seen, it’s very very easy to get into a spiral of punishment after punishment when the first one doesn’t work. I think you need to diffuse, take a step back and manage his behaviour in the moment but then let it pass. For example, surely being hauled out of a car seat is punishment enough - i’m not sure why it needs further punishment on top?

No, @VivaVivaa, that's valid, and I don't really punish - though I realise the above it probably sounds like i do! - but what do I do about about fact that this is happening every day, often multiple times, and talking to him about it doesn't work? What do I do to improve things for all of us?

My initial impulse is look for the stressor. Most dc act out (if they were previously chilled) when there is something physical or mental that is upsetting them

Take him to the GP and get a complete MOT with urine test, as pain can make the most lovely child turn into a beast, and children are notorious for just putting up with pain as they dont know its not normal unless its acute.

Is he getting enough sleep, does he snore, have stinky breath (both signs of overly large adenoids/tonsils that can close the airway and reduce sleep quality). Lack of sleep can impact behaviour massively

Any recent changes in his life, how is school going

If you can fund and manage the stressor, the behaviour will probably fade

He's definitely having a tough time. Lots of sensory seeking, lots of struggling with his emotions - and I do all the love bombing, the special time, the constantly telling him how amazing he is - but his behaviour is now absolutely appalling, and impacting on his sister. It can't carry on like this, for all 0ur sakes.

I imagine it’s linked to starting school and new routines etc.

In your example of not getting out of the car I would have waited it out in the car with him. I seemed to spend a lot of time waiting with dd at that age and younger. Sometimes she’s just couldn’t bring herself to do what I’d asked and it needed a lot of patient and calm insistence.

Is he at school yet? If not, nursery/preschool? Do they have any concerns?

Why is he having the tough time though

How about asking him to draw a picture and on one side of the paper draw all the things he loves and on the other side draw all the things he doesnt love

If it is a recent deterioration there must be something external / physical. Changes at school/nursery? How good is his vocabulary, can he explain how he feels? Is he getting enough sleep?

I'd stick with your natural consequences with a bit of bribery thrown in Countdown to leaving, promise of a reward when you get home, like you'll read with him or whatever. See if the positive reinforcement makes any difference?

This is exactly what I would ordinarily do, but I had a 2yo who desperately needed a nap and couldn't just sit and wait for him to decide to get out. So much of this is exacerbated by the fact that a lot of the time it's just me trying to handle both kids - it's much easier when we can divide and conquer.

Distraction and redirection are your best friends! You're not leaving the party, you're going to xx to do yy and it'll be just as much fun!

We also have "the Rules" for stuff like car seats. It's not you saying he has to wear his belts, it's the Rules. Works reasonably well.

I mean, i think that’s part of parenting. There are amazing phases, hellish phases and everything in between. It’s really hard, but often there isn’t a fix (unless, as per a PP, there is something clearly physically wrong that is fixable!) Your job is to be the present and try and guide him through the shit times without losing your marbles yourself! In this sort of case, when a child is clearly very dysregulated for whatever reason, consequences and punishments just don’t work. If talking doesn’t work then maybe try and connect through what he enjoys - you said he loves play. If you really played with him for an hour would he potentially open up then?

I have raised concerns with school; they had noticed some sensory seeking behaviour (chewing clothes, hugging other children very hard when they don't like it), and have started some emotional regulation work with him. He does t (yet) behave like this at school (though he did spend all of after school club the other day telling his teacher to 'shut up', a phrase he's certainly never heard in this house).

Is there any chance he has additional needs such as a neurodiversity. Children can sometimes appear to be coping fine until it all gets too difficult and then the meltdowns start.
If you don't have experience of ND it can be hard to recognise the signs unless they're really obvious (speech delay for example).

I don't know. I suspect he's finding school a lot, but I don't know what exactly, and to be honest there's nothing I can do about that- he has to go to school. He absolutely hates that I work. A lot of his friends' mums don't, and he desperately wants me to pick him up from school. But I just can't.

I would start by getting his hearing and sight tested. Does he have normal speech development? Rule out any organic cause that could be driving his frustration.

Be on the lookout for any classic signs of neurodivergence - sensory issues around fabrics, noise, textures in food, repetitive or ritualised behaviour; I'm not suggesting there is anything there, but if there is, the sooner you know the sooner you can apply the right targeted strategies.

Otherwise the key is consistency - remove him from the situation/end the activity, every time he loses his temper. Talk through it with him when he's calm and make sure he knows it will always be the same and explore what he could do instead of shouting and hitting. Give him phrases he can use to let you know that he is getting angry. Have a look at social stories around negative emotions and conflict, they're brilliant for any child who is struggling even though they are mainly aimed at autistic kids.

You could try things like visual timetables and 5, 3 and 1 minute warnings for changes in activity. Closed choices and lots of praise when he isn't behaving like a deranged honey badger. It's grim I know, but calm and consistent enforcement will pay off in the end - sometimes it's just when you feel like giving up that they suddenly start to turn the corner!

This is a lovely message, thank you (and to everyone else- I so appreciate all of your wisdom and ideas). The problem is, when he's 'himself', he's delightful. When he's like this, it's like a different child. And after he's back to normal, he can't talk about it - I'm not even sure he really remembers.

This is exactly what I would ordinarily do, but I had a 2yo who desperately needed a nap and couldn't just sit and wait for him to decide to get out. So much of this is exacerbated by the fact that a lot of the time it's just me trying to handle both kids - it's much easier when we can divide and conquer

I know the 2 year olds nap was important to you, but 5 year olds aren’t really renowned for their empathy. He was already feeling really upset because of the play date. I know with my ?ND nearly 4 year old, being rushed, especially if he is already emotionally wobbly, will absolutely cause a massive meltdown. I really don’t think this is naughty behaviour from him, just a complete clash of wants and needs. I really really hear you how hard it is balancing the needs of 2 DC though. Hugs x

Sounds like a tough bit OP. Do you talk about feelings a lot? I’m sure you do. A la ‘it’s really hard when we have to leave our friends’ and the like. I know you said he won’t talk after but can you be creative about it? My DD is just a little older and also very emotional at times about instructions, and resists discussing her behaviour at times. DH has a lovely game where he does a silly voice with this character who speaks to DD, and the character has a very similar problem or behaviour to DD she ends up telling this character about how she felt or how she could’ve resolved the problem differently, in a way she wouldn’t do directly.

I think also at these hard times always worth remembering that they are communicating things with their behaviour, like pps are saying, trying to get into what is he communicating about his needs with curiosity, might help a lot, rather than ‘how should I respond’. It could even be that he is needing boundaries that contain him more - he may also be feeling out of control and looking for your help to manage his emotions at those times when he’s having a meltdown. He may sense that you despair about what to do and be scared of his big feelings, want your help with them. Sorry I’m rambling - don’t we all despair! Sometimes I find trying to adopt a ‘bigger and stronger’ stance (with kindness not anger) helps regulate the kids as they feel ‘she’s got me’. If that makes sense.

Sympathy, he sounds a lot like DC3 about 6 months ago. It's exhausting when the slightest upset seems to trigger a completely disproportionate reaction.

How is his health otherwise, are there any suggestions anything might be going on? To back up the poster above you said you need to think about whether it's something physical causing it, that's turned out to the the case for DC3. He had constipation issues but was otherwise OK, but his health has gone rapidly downhill since. We are now awaiting coeliac screening, one of the main indicators in children can be behaviour problems. I'm obviously not saying that's the cause for you, just that if there are any health niggled alongside the behaviour changes, it's worth getting things checked out.

I have always thought there is something slightly ND about him (I work in a tangentially related field). No teachers have ever raised concerns, and he wouldn't currently pass the threshold for assessment (I took him to the GP, who agreed). But that is an explanation, if it is one, not a strategy- I already parent him as best I can as if he were ND, but I'm clearly not doing it right! Any advice welcomed!

@sprigatito , we do all of those (thank you so much for the suggestions though, i really appreciateit), and always have done. They used to work (though he was always one for 'option A or option B?' 'NEITHER', but aren't doing now.

Does he have asthma (or is he coughing all the time)? My 5 year old behaves much worse when his breathing is slightly more difficult, which is easy to miss.
Otherwise, How to Talk so that Kids Will Listen is really helpful.

Thank you so much. I never blame things on his sister (trying not to make them hate each other!!), but you're right that it's a me problem not a him problem. Thank you for being so lovely.

4 year old on the spectrum over here. I am lucky to work in schools and pick up tips from the SENCOs wherever I can.

Two moments/things that have really helped us are 1. Deal with the wasps nest not the wasps (the behaviour incidents aren't what you should respond to but the thing behind them) and 2. Bad behaviour can be about anxiety and control.

Our son tries to control everything. It was only when we understand that he escalates when he is anxious and the bad behaviour is about restoring his sense that he is in charge that we were able to address it. So for example, last week he was a bit of a ratbag - on the days when his sibling had scarlet fever and was pretty sick. When we switched focus to reassuring him and dishing out more cuddles all around, he relaxed and was able to play by himself.

This one made me cry - thank you for such a kind and helpful response. I think what you (and other insightful posters) jave nailed is that I'm too focused on doing something about it rather than just getting through it. I think I just worry a lot thet if I let yim get away with things (and his behaviour is really bad at times - sometimes cruel) that he'll grow up to be one of those kids with no boundaries who hasn't been taught to behave. But again- I guess this is a me problem, not a him problem.

He is OBSESSED with control. That is definitely at the root of all of these behaviours. (Not great when he comes yp against me - also a terrible control freak.)

I think the thing I find so hard is - he cannot control everything. There are four of us in this family and it cannot always be about him. (It almost always is, and I worry about raising him to think he's the centre of the universe.) And he just needs to learn, if someone says 'put your shoes on, we're going out', he just needs to do it. Otherwise, what next? - he doesn't want to go to school so he just doesn't go?