Honestly, what are your three year olds like at tidying after themselves?

[Whatsgoinonhere]

I’m aware this is probably going to get me flamed but my DS barely has a functioning toy because everything is so badly stored (my fault) and looked after.

I genuinely don’t know what to do. I do tell him for instance to put the lids back on things or to put that toy back in the box but he either ignores me or does such a bad job - forces the lid on so the pen ends up broken - it’s easier for me to try to do it.

When he wants to play he just empties the boxes all over the floor. I know toy rotation is often recommended but the problems with that are firstly not many toys are functioning, secondly, when I’ve tried it before I inevitably end up forgetting and finally storage of said toys!

I don’t know if there are any answers to this or any sympathy but I’d welcome help.

I think the people who think that children should be tidying away after themselves either don't have kids or theirs are grown and they now have rose coloured specs on. I have three children and they are rubbish at tidying up after themselves and the youngest who is now seven is the worst. He always used to tip tubs of toys out and then walk away from that disaster zone to create another one when he was younger. It does get easier though as they are all a bit more gagety now so it's switch games out of their cases and controllers strewn about which is easier to tidy.

@PictureALadybird i know but he just ignores me so I genuinely don’t know what to do. I am a bit lost with his behaviour generally. I know it’s my fault by the way but I just don’t know what I’m doing.

@mylifeisprettygood No, children behave how you allow them to behave. You accept that they’re just going to tip things out and walk off and you allow them to do it.

I would never allow that. It’s about having boundaries and being firm and consistent, not thinking “they’re 3, that’s just what they’re like”.

It’s not, you just have to actually put some effort into parenting them.

A 3 year old should be able to tidy up if they’ve been taught how to. You need to have a set tidy up time, not too many toys and storage clearly labelled with pictures. They may need some directing “Jack can
you find all the train set stuff and put it in the right box” or encouraging “Katie, can you pick up TEN baby items”.

At 3 DS would tidy up while I put DD to bed but he needed very specific instructions like "put the duplo in the box", ensuring he had easy access to says box, and couldn't handle more than two such instructions at once so would ignore the rest of the mess until I helped. He also couldn't do anything fiddly like lids. He's a bit better now at 11.
At 8 DD still needs specific instructions but she does have SEN.

Ok I haven’t put much effort in up to this point so that’s where I’ve gone wrong 👍🏻

3yo DS is capable of tidying up after himself - but as many others have said, they don’t always listen so he doesn’t always do it.

I hold quite strict boundaries - so if a “big toy” is out like his big train set or the box of Duplo/abundance of Magnet Tiles, they get tidied away before another big toy comes out.

I do a final tidy up each night when he’s in bed.

Inevitably, little bits end up scattered as you’ve said @Whatsgoinonhere so DS and I have a “big sort out” once a week or so. We put a story on in his Yoto player and All the boxes come etc out & we check under sofas etc and we make a big game of finding the right box for the right toys - all cars back together, all food back in the toy kitchen, all duplo away etc, all cuddly toys back in their box, all pieces of board games back in the right box.

I find it’s a good way of keeping on top of all the little bits.

Breaking things is a no-go. Accidental breaks happen and that’s fine, but breaking things on purpose or through being too rough and he knows the toys will go away 🤷🏻‍♀️

How are you asking him? Are you just asking him to do it half heartedly from another room and hoping he will with no follow through from you?

Or are you coming over, getting down to his level, looking him in the eye and making your expectations clear? Are you doing it with him to show him how? If not, that’s what you need to be doing.

He ignores you because you allow him to ignore you.

He just laughs in my face. I do realise I’ve gone wrong but hard to say exactly where.

So you are getting down to his level and showing him and he just laughs at you?

”Okay, you don’t want to help put this toy away. That means we can’t get another toy out then.”

And don’t let him get anything else out. If he tries, just put it back.

@PictureALadybird look I need help here. And all you’re doing is upsetting me not helping me. Getting down to his level and saying something firmly means he laughs in my face and twists away. I’m a primary care teacher and have a lovely atmosphere at school but at home it’s another matter. He doesn’t listen, runs off, laughs and ignores me.

I am sure I have gone wrong and I am trying to lay this out very openly so people can help but berating me and helping me just aren’t the same.

And what do you do next?

I would ask your HV about parenting courses or try reading the book “How to talk so little kids listen.”

You also need to his toys Ok. Chuck out the broken one and get easy to labelled storage.

I am helping you. This is help. This is how you should be responding when he laughs:

“Okay, you don’t want to help put this toy away. That means we can’t get another toy out then.”

And don’t let him get anything else out. If he tries, just put it back.

its the old thing of explaining the consequence if he doesn’t do as he is asked (or indeed if he is rude to you and upsets you - ie laughs in your face) and once it has been clearly explained (and say “do you understand? Can you repeat it back to me?”) then if he runs off, the toys go away. Immediate consequence to clearly explained circumstance. And yes he may well yell. It will be so much easier and better the sooner you do this, so good luck.

From my point of view, you are getting straightforward advice here, but it seems like you're in a bit of an emotional place so you're not finding it helpful.

I second the advice to read "how to talk", maybe it'll feel a bit less pointed.

I've always been quite strict with mine that they can't make mindless mess. I don't mind them getting toys out to play with (obviously!), but if they just upend a box of toys and then walk away, I make sure they come back and tidy up before they can move onto the next thing. Also, if playing with stuff like blocks etc... I keep an eye on them to make sure they stay within the vicinity of the room, to prevent them getting spread about all over the house.

I have got those racks with storage boxes on them so it's easy to find stuff and put stuff away. I found big toy boxes cause more mess, despite being able to store more, as you need to really rummage around to find anything!

I expect my 3 year old to help with tidying / putting things away but if it's something like paints or colouring pens, I don't expect them to be able to put all the lids on properly and tidy them up - that's something that I think comes when they're a bit older.

I don't make tidying up a chore, I just keep things light and breezy and usually motivate them by saying what activity we'll be moving onto once the tidying is done. Eg, 'let's tidy up the bricks so we can get the colouring pens out' type thing. I also pick my battles, if it's the end of the day and my 3 year old is tired, I won't ask them to help as it's just quicker and easier to get them off to bed and to do it afterwards!

Ds is fairly good. We help but he does his bit.

a few things that probably help:

1. Easy storage. We have baskets for most things. So he just needs to throw correct item ie train track in that basket.
2. no basket is full. About 1/2-3/4 so he doesn’t have to ram anything in
3. not too much of anytime. Nothing is missing or broken. I sort through regularly.

The baskets live under sofa if large like train track or duplo, small baskets in cupboard with doors. So when all awaybits fairly tidy.

To tidy if there’s lots out, I try and focus him on one item. We had lots out after play date here and I would say to him to find all the play food only, or just duplo. Once that’s all away, then next item. I or dh are tidying up majority

Can you try making it a game? He’s not going to do it on his own but I was astonished that my three year old tidied up at nursery - purely because all the other children were and they had a song about tidying up that they all sung whilst they tried to impress each other with their tidying skills! It helps if everywhere has a “proper place” to put them away.

Oh and pens I don’t allow him to have alone at all yet. So he has them sitting at dining table with us. Otherwise there’s bound to be artwork on furniture

And 100% natural consequences - if a 3 year old laughs in my face rudely, then I'm not going to get another toy out/feel like going to the park before the shops/going to be able to watch kids TV/have energy to do painting/insert any other tiring preschool activity. I would say this out loud and eventually he will connect his behaviour with you not allowing other nice things.

I would also say, it seems you struggle with executive function of having toy systems, so it might be that he's inherited similar from you and you'll need to massively lower your expectations for a long time re tidying or other complex multi step tasks. Or maybe you struggle because having a 3 year old is exhausting but ultimately you're not role modelling either way.

You're fine, he sounds like a normal 3 year old. My kids are primary and early teens and none of them tidy spontaneously or routinely. Yes if I wanted the house tidy all the time I could tell them to tidy all day long and they would but frankly I don't care about it enough. At 3 they would tidy up as a game with the tidy up song on, but half the time it was just as messy again later on. I mainly manage it by decluttering. We don't rotate toys because they don't have enough to rotate. I mean they still had plenty of toys but even if you tipped them all out onto the lounge floor in one go they wouldn't fill half the floor. We had a couple of big flexible trugs for wooden railway, dolls and Lego and a labelled IKEA kallax for smaller toys like cars and animals. Then I just put away things on the floor at the end of the day. Takes about 10 minutes.

I think the problem is there are no consequences he cares about, sometimes I can get him to respond if I turn the TV off if he’s watching it and ignoring me.

I sort of wish I hadn’t asked now 😂

No, the problem is that there is no clear expectation on his behaviour.

Also he’s 3, so if he’s watching tv (let’s hope he isn’t watching too much), he isn’t going to just stop watching and listen to you.

You need to go over to him while he’s watching and get his attention. Look him in the eye. If he still refuses to look at you/listen/engage then pause the tv.

But you’re role modelling rude behaviour so of course he will too. You’re showing you don’t care what he’s doing (at that moment watching tv) and if he doesn’t turn to you you’ll turn it off. So he does the equivalent back to you at other points.

This isn’t a power battle. Don’t make it one. You should discipline, not punish.

I try not to buy many “difficult to store” things. Anything with “pieces” is on very infrequent rotation and messy things are for when I have the capacity. Eg we have crayons and colouring pencils he can use whenever but we have one small set of paint sticks that are for “special” use (when I can make the time to set up and clear away). Play doh similarly. We have Duplo and Magnatiles but only the Magnatiles are out at the moment. The box is more than big enough for him to pack away and put the lid on (doesn’t need to be packed perfectly). The “really useful” branded boxes are great. Puzzles aren’t on rotation but he’s only allowed one out at a time and he knows that.