Help me salvage relationship between DD & DH

[MumTeacherofMany]

Help please!!!
I'm very worried about the terrible relationship between DD (13) & DH.

They barely speak if they can help it. Neither have anything positive to say about the other. DD is MUCH happier when DH is out. A great example this evening... DD had her parents evening online. Fairly good all round, a little distracted but doing well in the most important subjects. DH was at work while I attended online and when he came in I said I was pleased. DD walked in, I happily said I was just telling DH how well you've done at school. (Hint hint please be positive & congratulate her!) He said "yeah well done. Stop swinging on the f*cking cupboard" she wasn't. She opened it to get out a snack. She storms off. I said to him you've just turned something back to a negative so quickly. His response "I'll congratulate her in my own time I want to, it's weird you try to get involved". He wouldn't have. He didn't even remember it was parents evening and definitely wouldn't have asked how she got on...

Is this beyond salvageable? I've seen her share tiktok reposts about Daughter/Father relationships so this is obviously bothering her. They've never been overally close but since she started secondary school it's gone significantly downhill. I honestly feel like they hate each other.

OK... if you really want advice on how to try to salvage this, I will try.

Sit him down at a neutral time in a place without distractions. Say, calmly, "I'm really concerned about your attitude with DD. It isn't OK and we can't carry on like this. Do you want to change things? Will you work on it or not?" If he gives excuses, I'd say, "you're the parent. Again, do you want to change things?" If he says no, plan to leave. If he says yes, immediately buy some books, book therapy and parenting teens classes. Advise him it isn't negotiable, and that you have been very sadly and with regret, thinking about leaving him to keep DD safe.

What would happen if you called out his behaviour in front of her every single time he was abusive? If you said speaking to her like that is unacceptable for example.
He sounds like he loathes her and has no respect for you either. Does he speak to you in that way? And if he doesn’t why not? What gives him the right to speak to another person so disgustingly? Would he do it to a work colleague? If his answer is no then what gives him the right to speak to his child like that

Tbh you don't sound nearly angry enough with him about this. You're still minimising the extent to which it is his fault - by saying things like 'They rub each other up the wrong way'.

@Gymmum82 I normally don't call out the behaviour in front of her as I don't want her to witness an argument. I don't want her to think she is causing an argument between us. He doesn't speak to others like this. Yes he often swears at me and can be very humiliating.

@AllProperTeaIsTheft I am upset. And angry. Hence why I needed to rant and wondered if I was justified. They do rub each other up the wrong way. Sometimes he's a nob. Sometimes she is short with him and openly rolls her eyes and has attitude. But he is the adult and should have better control. There is no minimising it.

@MrsTerryPratchett this is great advice. Thankyou

Your poor dd as if being a teenager isn't brutal enough.
Yes you need to talk to him when all is calm.

I agree with @MrsTerryPratchett ’s advice, you have to protect your DD from this behavior and if he won’t change, well, you’ll have no choice but to strongly consider ending the relationship. Respect between family members is key and as the parent, HE has to model that behavior.

@HamBone absolutely!!! He has moaned before we all have no respect for him. I agreed with him! But respect has to be earned!

I do understand not wanting to argue in front of children and my mum took this approach. Years on though one of my siblings holds my mother equally responsible as they see her as enabling it and her never standing up for them. I think they also internalised that he must be right about them if no-one was contesting it.

Did you husband actually swear at your 13 year old daughter?

Fu*k that! I'd chuck him out and I'm from the 'all problems can be solved if we discuss it' style of marriage.

No way is my child being subjected to that!

Yes, you have to draw lines sometimes. I’ve occasionally had to speak to my DH about losing his temper with DS (15) who can be annoying in fairness! I’ve told him that it’s not acceptable. Same with the kids, we’re generally laid back but if they get too cheeky/rude to a parent, the other will say “You don’t speak to your Mum/Dad like that.”

I’m perfect, of course, I never lose my temper or swear. 🤣🤣

My dad and my sister could literally fall out just by looking at each other
I’d say from 12 till early twenties then after that they idolised each other

there personalities are more at less identical
too similar they just clashed all the time

@Justanything86 totally get that. How sad 😥

I think this is possibly one of the few times I would say that arguing in front of the DC might be the lesser of two evils. Whilst in the ideal world you wouldn't need to ever criticise the other parent in front of the kids, sometimes it's important for the kids to feel that someone is standing up for them.
This type of parent child dynamic is so damaging and actually by challenging it in front of her will perhaps lessen that damage somewhat

@rwalker this is like my DH & DD. It's weird because in some ways they're so alike, tempers are very similar!!! Then in other ways so different

@carerneedshelp this is interesting, thankyou

I agree with @MrsTerryPratchett

my DH has difficulties with our DD when she was younger (aged 6-7)

he was bothered by it though and talked / moaned at me about it.

so I knew he wanted things to improve he just didn’t know how.

eventually I firmly said to him:

• you are the parent and the adult, so however you think you got here, including her having a bad attitude or being disrespectful, it’s your role to figure out how to turn it around

• I was firm that if she preferred me that was a reflection of the effort I put in and the fact that she felt safe with me. I couldn’t fix this, he had to step up and be a better dad / man for her.

• I also made it super clear that he would be her template for her relationships with men as an adult and if he let it carry on being dysfunctional and him seeking to dominate her into being ‘better’ that’s what she’d seek in adult life

• he once squirted some water in her face when he was angry at her for something minor, and it wasn’t playful.

• that evening I made it clear that was totally unacceptable to me and either he took a long hard look at himself or I’d start to make plans to keep her safe. It helped that we’d seen his older teen nieces recently and he’d noted how vulnerable they seemed. I pointed out to him that DD’s strong sense of fairness was a good thing and if he succeeded in squashing that out of her, how would she have the confidence to turn down a man telling her ‘come back with me, stay with me, let me touch you’ when she was that age. It made him think.

• I got him to read stuff and he did a parenting course through work. He also had already reflected on how his own bad experiences with parenting were coming back out here.

he has now turned it around and they are back to a warm and loving relationship.

he knows I mean what I say though and I wasn’t joking when I said he had to get his shit together. Happy that he did.

it’s not an easy path to end a relationship.

but tbh if my DH was speaking to me and treating me the way you say yours does you, I would be considering that anyway

@Fernsfernsferns this is really helpful thankyou! Glad it worked out xx

This is exactly what I was thinking.

By not calling him out when he is unnecessarily horrible to her, your silence (remember to her 13 year old brain), is being complicit with him. In her mind - he is horrible and you're not speaking up for her.

'Firstly she's not swinging on the cupboard. Secondly, swearing is unnecessary and horrible. Thirdly, I've just told you she is doing awesome at school - maybe a well done wouldn't go amiss.'

He sounds absolutely vile. Your poor daughter.

Jesus. He’s a total failure.

@arethereanyleftatall thanks for this, great advice. On this occasion I did call him out as I couldn't hold back. His response was as I'd said in the original post. I call him out a lot whilst trying to also not undermine. Its so hard 😪I feel we need a deep chat ASAP or I will have to parent alone, her mental health is the most important thing to me

@MumTeacherofMany if your daughter's mental health is the most important thing to you then you need to issue an ultimatum to your DH - get therapy or leave. Your DHs abuse will be affecting your daughter's mental health already.

Openly rolling her eyes and having attitude is age appropriate for a 13yo. When you really need to worry is if they don’t do that with a parent as it can be an indication they don’t feel safe.

when my dd rolls her eyes, I either ignore or comment on the melodrama and move on. She will grow out of it. She is allowed to have big feelings and be unhappy when I say things she doesn’t like or make her do things she doesn’t want to do.

dd’s dad struggles a bit with the right tone with her. He has been very receptive to making adjustments though. He wants to get it right, he just has a tendency to be a bit too blunt with everyone. I have no qualms about calling him out in front of her, but he takes it on stride because he has good intentions.