Talk me through how you'd manage this behaviour incident (3yo)

[oasiswon]

Interested to know (without judgements please) how other parents would deal with the following scenario, step by step.

3.5yo, no specific needs.

In a shop which sells books, and a few toys. Choosing a present for his relative. Sees toys and asks for one. "Can I have that?". Parent's response along the lines of "not today but perhaps you could add that to your list for Santa!" Child repeats asking for numerous toys, parents repeats similar responses, tries to distract them, and then child loses their shit. Screaming, crying till purple. Shouting and screaming "I want a toy" and thrashing about. Absolutely inconsolable and incredibly distressed.

What would you have done differently and what would you do next?

I take minded children all the time 1,2 and 3 year olds....it's preparation and consistency every time you shop....look with your eyes, were choosing for y its not your birthday etc avoidance isn't always an answer. If they ask it's we will remember it for your birthday it's y today

And your child will turn in to the 10 year old crying when others get presents if you don’t simply deal with this issue rather than avoiding it. @Outwiththenorm

There is absolutely no point whatsoever in trying to reason with a child who is having a tantrum. They just aren't going to be able to receive any messages that you are trying to impart. I was extremely lucky that mine weren't really big tantrummers, but we did have a handful of them. Strangely, I found it much easier to deal with those occasions where they'd clearly fully lost it, as opposed to when they're just being a bit obnoxious. I think because you can just plainly see that they aren't in control and first and foremost they just need your help. So once a tantrum had already started, my aim would have just been to remove them to a safe place where it could run its course. Much harder when you're out and about than at home, but if there's a little patch of grass somewhere or something like that, I'd just pop them down, offer a cuddle (which they'd generally refuse initially, but would sometimes ask for once they'd started to calm), tell them calmly that they are safe and I'm there when they need me, and just let them get it out of their system. It's much easier if you can try and not give a crap about potentially judgemental passers-by. Once they've calmed down, they may still be unhappy and arguing their case, but you can hopefully get through to them at that point. I'd just try and distract - "No we're not getting any toys today. Let's go and post our letters in the postbox. Shall I pick you up so you can pop them in?".

Obviously buying the torch after he had a tantrum wasn't the best move but it's done now. Don't beat yourself up about it. It was a stressful situation and you did your best in the moment.

Mommin' ain't easy!

Children are almost always more cooperative with adults who are not their parents.

Agree with the taking pictures then distracting thing.
I would have taken them out at an earlier stage when it became clear that all they were going to do was ask for things.
If the screaming started I would have just picked them up and left with them under my arm (and a red face)

I'm not a perfect parent though, toddlers are just difficult and frustrating at times.
I avoided shopping with mine like the plague at that age.

When you've had them 50 hours a week for 3 years I think it's more about consistency and knowing boundaries alongside parental work guilt that we all have

@jannier do you have your children, because I know loads of people who have worked with children and then been shocked by the reality of having their own. It is easier to be consistent when it is your job for 50 hours a week as opposed to your whole life 24/7.

I am really sorry @jannier but I have no idea what you mean about ‘parental work guilt.’ Are you trying to suggest that parents feel guilty for working and therefore buy their children presents, but you don’t have any such guilt so can nip in and out of shops freely?

Before going into the shop I would lay out my expectations "we are going in here to buy X a present. If you see something you like then we can take a picture for Christmas / birthday whichever was closest. Do you have any questions?" and that would be our habit before going into any shop where I thought there might be an issue, it takes 30 seconds.

When she saw something she liked I would quickly talk to her about it, ask her why she liked it and what colour she would like, take the picture and then distract her. When it came to gift giving time we would scroll through the pictures and she could pick a couple off the list mostly she'd forgotten all about them

Oh, your first response was fine. Your 3 year old had a meltdown, and you took them out the shop. It is perfectly fine (and good for them) for a 3 year old to hear the word no. (And a parent mean it and follow through)
It sets boundaries, and once you are consistent, they then understand the rules of life 😁.

Obviously, you know you have shown him, this behaviour earns him a toy, but he is 3, you are human and these things happen
Just explain before going in, we are not buying toys for you etc etc. He will soon learn once he's been given the consistent message.

I used to take our DS to the shops he learnt not to ask as he wouldn't get.

Yes I have children

No I'm saying that the natural guilt we feel makes it harder to be consistent they hit us at a low point and we bend. But toddlers can absolutely go into toy shops and help choose a gift

No I'm saying that the natural guilt we feel makes it harder to be consistent they hit us at a low point and we bend. But toddlers can absolutely go into toy shops and help choose a gift

This

Ok well you were daft to buy him the torch and haven’t taught him the right message this time but it was only one time.

The key is whether next time, when the tantrum is bigger because he’s now made an association between tantrumming, arguing with mum and ultimately getting what he wants, you are able to hold firm and stick to your boundaries.

My key principles are - be really clear in expectations; always think before saying no (ie don’t say no then go back on it cos I’ve realised it’s daft); hold the boundary. I have 2 very well behaved teenagers as a result (& some luck) - by which I mean they make mistakes and push boundaries as much as the next dc but they are very secure in my expectations and boundaries.

Pick them up put them in the pram or back in the car, explain I said no because Santa is coming and now we are going home, ignore if continues to scream on the way home and put in his room when we get home for reflection time.

Would of probably done similar to be honest or just said no you can’t have one, 9/10 times my kids would of accepted it , once in a while a tantrum, which I would ignore and just keep on. Can’t always get what you want in life

Also but you should not have taken them to pick a present out for Someone else, obviously they're going to want something too.

OP, you seem like an excellent mum and I think this is just an example of, no matter how hard you try to do it all by the book, sometimes toddlers win!

I had a similar experience last week whereby we were meant to be picking a present for a friend and DS got really upset that he couldn't get the toy too - I tried to hold firm but ended up giving in and buying him a small treat as I felt guilty that I'd basically set him up for failure without realising.

It's good to say no and be firm, but at the same time, they're only little and sometimes we expect so much from them!

I'm chalking it up to a learning experience and won't be taking him present shopping for another person for a wee while...

When a 3 year old asks for something they usually don't actually want it deeply, but when the adult response comes, they don't listen to the words or explanations they feel the response.
And if the response feels like rejection and separation then their feelings start to flood in.
Before you know it, your feelings about being pressured to buy are triggering you, and their feelings about separation are triggering them, and before you know it they are melting down and you are trying to deal with two sets of strong feelings.

Based on that you can maybe find a response that maintaines your connection and basically the atmosphere, without actually crossing any of your limits. And even if things do go wrong you can get things back by forgetting about toys and thinking about reconnection
Something like "oh yeah what a great toy! can you see any other toys you like the look of? Have a look while I choose a present. You can look but not touch" You don't really have to rush in and say no, or often even say no at all. We only rush to say no to deal with our own feeling quickly.

I teach children with pretty complex needs, some of whom have a lot of challenges in their lives. With me, they’re almost always delightful. When I report this back to parents I am generally met by incredulity and not infrequently it it’s a child with a fairly popular name ‘do you definitely mean Freya Jones?’ (as an example)

Children up and down the country are pains for their own parents in a way they aren’t for nursery workers, childminders, teachers and even grandparents, depending on how often they see them. I know my own son meekly lay down on a mat and napped at nursery for several months after he refused to do so at home, for example.

More or less this when it happened to me, but it wasn’t at Christmas. Paid quickly for the present, strapped him into the buggy, exited shop with him tantrumming, and walked a little way down an alleyway and faced the buggy towards a plain brick wall and waited with him until he calmed down.

No way would I have bought him anything.

I think that expecting a 3 year old to choose a toy for someone else is really unrealistic, of course they don’t understand that it’s not for them. Obviously they would choose what they would want.
I’m not surprised at all that there was a tantrum. It’s like taking them into a sweet shop to buy some for someone else but refusing to buy some for them.

How many three year olds are routinely using pushchairs? My ds is just three and we haven’t used the pushchair for ages.

They do understand they are getting something for someone else what some haven't learned is that they can't have what they want in shops avoiding a shop doesn't teach them anything.