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My 5yo was left alone outside the school

197 replies

EezyOozy · 05/12/2023 11:46

Hi,

I’m going for a meeting with the headteacher of my daughters school later on today and wanted to be prepared. I have already written complaint via email which has triggered this meeting.

Last Friday. We had quite severe snow and ice and I couldn’t get my car out of my property for a few minutes… Long story short I was a few minutes late for pick up. I am never normally late, I don’t think I have ever been late before … need to make that very clear! This was a one off due to extreme weather.

When I arrived at the school, my five-year-old was standing outside on the pavement by herself, crying. There were other people around, but nobody that really knows my daughter, and certainly nobody had noticed her standing there, everybody was just leaving.

There is a different teacher on a Friday to who is there from the rest of the week.

It appears this teacher had led the children down the steps and out of the school, not bothered to check who had an adult there to collect them, and who didn’t.

She then went back up the steps, through the gate, through another gate, back into the playground towards the classroom (round the corner, and behind a wall), which is where I eventually found her standing chatting.

she hadn’t gone completely back into the classroom, but she may as well have done.

She was completely out of my daughters sight and through a gate that cannot be opened by a child from the other side. And was also behind a wall/around the corner.

nothing that bad happened, apart from my daughter, being quite shaken and upset… but it could have done. I did try and phone the office when I realised I was going to be slightly late, but nobody answered. What if I had been 20 minutes late, or had an accident and not turned up at all… these things happen. Not to mention the extreme weather and ice… What if my daughter had tried to walk home by herself or wondered off somewhere else.

My main issues are that the teacher did not check whether or not a parent or guardian was there to collect each child. And simply left her on the pavement outside of the school! The second issue is that she then removed herself … completely out of sight and earshot , and had no idea that my daughter was standing there… Surely they should wait close by?

I’m wondering what to say to the head and how seriously this should be taken.

Do I have a right to ask for the schools, written policies about pick up procedure / what should happen if a child is not collected on time?

I’m worried I’m going to be palmed off , but I simply don’t trust this teacher at all anymore! When I confronted the teacher she just said “oh sorry… I didn’t realise!”

yes of course you didn’t realise… You didn’t do any checks or bother supervise the children properly, so how could you possibly have realised!

OP posts:
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JulianCasa · 17/12/2023 21:53

Wtaf!

Im a teacher and I don’t let any child go until I’ve said their name and seen exactly who they’re going to. If the grown up isn’t close enough they’re not allowed to leave me. In the first few weeks I made them wave to grown ups so I could see exactly who they were going to!

Im so glad your daughter is ok. Could you suggest some of the above?

BackAgain2023 · 17/12/2023 21:54

I'm in Scotland and children are just sent out here. Tell your daughter if you're not there to pick her up then she's to go into the office.
I wouldn't be having a meeting about this, seems like a massive overreaction

EezyOozy · 17/12/2023 21:54

What age of children @BackAgain2023 ?

OP posts:

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SirChenjins · 17/12/2023 21:55

EezyOozy · 17/12/2023 21:48

@SirChenjins no, not yet. I hadn’t thought about that to be honest. I’ve been on tenterhooks waiting to see what the outcome of this complaint is.

If it were me I would be contacting them now (you may have more than one) to let them know what’s happening and to tell them that, depending on the outcome of the 1st level, you may be in contact for their support in taking this forward.

Regardless of whether they’re waiting for union support or not, then HT should be keeping you up to date and certainly shouldn’t have said what she did about you speaking to other parents - she has no right to do that.

Soontobe60 · 17/12/2023 21:56

EezyOozy · 17/12/2023 21:52

@Soontobe60 not contradictory
at all.

The other parent was standing up high in the playground. There is a retaining wall. I couldn’t see the teacher from where I was standing due to the layout / steps / fence / corner of a building involved . I could draw if for you if you like. Rest assured I made it very clear to the head where the teacher was standing and that she couldn’t be seen by me and certainly not a small child.

Edited

Now you’ve clarified it, it doesn’t sound contradictory. Hopefully you’ll have some answers to your complaint this week.

Soontobe60 · 17/12/2023 21:58

BackAgain2023 · 17/12/2023 21:54

I'm in Scotland and children are just sent out here. Tell your daughter if you're not there to pick her up then she's to go into the office.
I wouldn't be having a meeting about this, seems like a massive overreaction

The point is, the usual arrangement is for the children to be picked up on the playground. OPs DD wasn’t on the playground. In my school, we only allow Year 6 children to leave without a parent if we have permission from that parent.

BackAgain2023 · 17/12/2023 21:58

From p1.

EezyOozy · 17/12/2023 22:00

@BackAgain2023 I really don’t think that’s the norm. P1’s can be 4 years old. They just open the gate and let them wander onto the street without checking if anybody is there to collect them?!

OP posts:
BackAgain2023 · 17/12/2023 22:02

"The point is, the usual arrangement is for the children to be picked up on the playground. OPs DD wasn’t on the playground. In my school, we only allow Year 6 children to leave without a parent if we have permission from that parent."

nothing happened though, I'd just be telling my child that if I was there to pick up for whatever reason then to go into the office to wait. These things happen, I do think it's an over reaction to asking for meetings and policies etc.

BackAgain2023 · 17/12/2023 22:04

I've no idea if it's the norm or not, it's a small school, everyone knows everyone and someone would notice if a child's parent wasn't there. I've always told my son that if I wasn't there just to tell the office.

EezyOozy · 17/12/2023 22:04

@BackAgain2023 and what about the fact that the teacher has lied and stated that she was waiting in the playground with my daughter when I arrived. Is that fine too?!

edit - and this teacher is new. She doesn’t know anyone.

OP posts:
BackAgain2023 · 17/12/2023 22:08

It's obviously not ok to lie, but that's not what your op was about.

BackAgain2023 · 17/12/2023 22:09

If she's new then she might not have remembered your schools policy. If it had bothered me then Id have just had a quick word with her and that would have solved it. She's obviously lying now to protect her job (not defending the lying but that's the reasoning)

OliviaFlaversham · 17/12/2023 22:12

BackAgain2023 · 17/12/2023 22:09

If she's new then she might not have remembered your schools policy. If it had bothered me then Id have just had a quick word with her and that would have solved it. She's obviously lying now to protect her job (not defending the lying but that's the reasoning)

There is no school where the policy would be to allow 4 year olds to be out of sight and not ensuring they’d gone to an adult. Also, the thread has moved on in light of the responses from the school so the lying is very much an issue!

SirChenjins · 17/12/2023 22:13

She didn’t ‘just’ lie, she breached the safeguarding policy big time, and ‘forgetting’ isn’t a good enough excuse .

I’m amazed that your primary school puts four year olds out without checking there is someone there to collect them. You should ask to see their policy to confirm that’s the case.

EezyOozy · 17/12/2023 22:14

@BackAgain2023 Fortunately you seem to be in the significant minority, suggesting it’s fine to simply open the gate and let very young children walk out of school, regardless of whether anyone is there to collect them or not. It’s a very busy road as well. Thank you for your thoughts though!

OP posts:
katmarie · 17/12/2023 22:37

If my 4yo's school opened the gate and let my dd walk out into the street, where God knows what could happen to her, I'd be raising merry hell. I can't imagine what's going on inside the school management team regarding this but their communication back to you since your initial complaint has been appalling. The comment about discussing with other parents is especially irritating, you have every right to speak to other parents. And they had every opportunity to influence what you said to other parents here too. If theyd done things right it could have been you saying 'this went wrong but the school were on it and they reassured me and produced a new policy and took action to make sure it never happened again.' Their failure to act is not your problem to hush up on their behalf.

UngratefulOldCabbage · 18/12/2023 07:44

I've read the thread and what a breach of safeguarding and trust! I had something similar when my child was that age and the school couldn't have been better. The teacher admitted the fault. An emergency meeting was called and by 8.30 the next morning a new school wide procedure for pick up was in place. Excellent outcome for everyone. And exactly what your school should have done. I hope you get the result you need.

EezyOozy · 20/12/2023 16:38

I have had a formal reply to my level 1 frontline complaint. The teacher has changed her story again - and is now saying that when I arrived my daughter was outside the school playground but inside the school property at the top of a set of steps (not true) . And that the teacher was a couple of feet away from her, closely supervising my daughter when I arrived (not true). The head has also got a witness statement from a TA whom I do not believe was there when I arrived (I was actively looking around when I arrived trying to find a teacher or TA). The TA has claimed that my daughter remained inside school property (not true). The head hasn’t spoken to the parent witness I have supplied who will back up what I am saying, and has not explained why she hasn’t done this. There is no explanation of why the teachers story has changed. I have emailed in response to ask these things. I have also said that there was no TA visible when I arrived (I did look for someone) so I’m not sure how this witness statement has come about! I have reiterated my story and that, when confronted immediately after the incident, the teacher said that she thought my daughter has been picked up! Why would she say this if she was keeping a close eye on her! Why was my child crying hysterically?! Why did another parent see me searching about for a member off staff.

I am so so so upset. I will escalate to level 2 but I’m almost questioning what the point is, if they are willing to put absolute lies into a letter then what is the point? I was ready to fill out forms for my children to move school (I was going to do this tonight) but my husband doesn’t want my daughter to have to move school. She and her sister would be devastated … but I’m not sure where I am mean to go from here.

OP posts:
SirChenjins · 20/12/2023 16:47

Bloody hell, that’s terrible Angry. Definitely escalate and speak to your local Councillor/s - the school can’t be allowed to brush this under the carpet. You can also take this to the Ombudsman if you feel you’re not getting a satisfactory response (which you’re not at this stage) https://education.gov.scot/contact-us/concerns/

Concerns about a school or service

Education Scotland is a Scottish Government executive agency responsible for supporting quality and improvement in Scottish education.

https://education.gov.scot/contact-us/concerns/

AnneValentine · 20/12/2023 17:03

EezyOozy · 20/12/2023 16:38

I have had a formal reply to my level 1 frontline complaint. The teacher has changed her story again - and is now saying that when I arrived my daughter was outside the school playground but inside the school property at the top of a set of steps (not true) . And that the teacher was a couple of feet away from her, closely supervising my daughter when I arrived (not true). The head has also got a witness statement from a TA whom I do not believe was there when I arrived (I was actively looking around when I arrived trying to find a teacher or TA). The TA has claimed that my daughter remained inside school property (not true). The head hasn’t spoken to the parent witness I have supplied who will back up what I am saying, and has not explained why she hasn’t done this. There is no explanation of why the teachers story has changed. I have emailed in response to ask these things. I have also said that there was no TA visible when I arrived (I did look for someone) so I’m not sure how this witness statement has come about! I have reiterated my story and that, when confronted immediately after the incident, the teacher said that she thought my daughter has been picked up! Why would she say this if she was keeping a close eye on her! Why was my child crying hysterically?! Why did another parent see me searching about for a member off staff.

I am so so so upset. I will escalate to level 2 but I’m almost questioning what the point is, if they are willing to put absolute lies into a letter then what is the point? I was ready to fill out forms for my children to move school (I was going to do this tonight) but my husband doesn’t want my daughter to have to move school. She and her sister would be devastated … but I’m not sure where I am mean to go from here.

Edited

Please escalate. Changing statements will be noted.

SecondUsername4me · 20/12/2023 17:06

Ok so now there are three versions of the teachers story - the truth, her initial lie, and a subsequent lie which is different to the first lie.

Yes, escalate. Contact the LEA and Ofsted. And I'd submit a subject access request too.

Longlazyday · 20/12/2023 17:12

What a total and absolute mess that would have been quickly and effectively resolved for all if teacher admitted error and worked in an organisation where this was possible, head clarified policy publicly. Job done. Instead sounds like head is running a no support for staff organisation.

All you needed was action that resulted in your trust in the school being re established.

We all make mistakes and dodge bullets, which is why we need to be in supportive communities- staff and children.

So sorry this has been such an institutionally flawed experience for you and your family.

JustAGirlScotland · 20/12/2023 17:55

If they are willing to band together to cover this up - what else is going on behind the scenes?

IMO you have no choice but to move your children. You cannot trust these people to look after your children.

100% escalate. They will be hoping you will back down - do not do this even if you do move.

legalseagull · 20/12/2023 18:21

Ask the other parent to write you a statement themselves as the school clearly won't take one. Just ask for them to email everything they saw.

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