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Original poster

Friend who went through DV now faced with homelessness and losing her kids

323 replies

ConcernedCitizenUK · 04/12/2023 21:41

Hi everyone, I am supporting a friend who is really struggling and we don't know where to turn to for advice and support. Trying my luck here.

She went through an abusive marriage and has 2 small kids.

She left him and got a non molestation order on him and went to the police.

They had a council house but it was in his name, so she left and went to a council to declare homelessness.

Her previous council home was a nice 2 or 3 bedroom house but the council offered her a small council flat.

Unfortunately she received some really bad advice that she should be firm and refuse the property and the council will get her a bigger house.

She did that and the council banned her from being on the housing list and declared her "intentionally homeless".

She had a social worker to support her and also spoke to her local MP for help. But the MP seemed more interested in trying to take the children off her than help her (a tory MP).

The social worker organised hotels for a few weeks and tried to change the councils minds and then now have said they will no longer fund hotels and if she doesnt find housing by tomorrow they will take her kids and put them in foster care.

I have tried contacting journalists, womens aid charities like Refuge, Womens aid etc. They dont even respond.

Womens refuge charities will not help, since she is not in immediate danger, as she left her ex a while ago now.

I have no idea where left to turn to get her help. I am talking to all these people on her behalf and she is also talking to citizens advice etc and we cant find any help at all.

Any suggestions on what to do or who can help?

OP posts:
Bobtheamazinggingerdog · 05/12/2023 20:12

Witsend101 · 05/12/2023 19:56

This thread is so depressing. So basically if you are brave enough to leave a DV situation but make one mistake in turning down a council flat then you are condemned forever from having other accommodation offered even when there are children involved ?? I can't get my head around this nor the fact that lots of people think this is OK. Why are the children being punished because of this bureaucratic nonsense

She was brave enough 2 years ago and spent 2 years in emergency accommodation. She was offered a longer term property and turned it down despite being told explicitly she wouldn't be offered anywhere else. This has nothing to do with her bravery and everything to do with her stupid decision. Housing departments are absolutely on the bones of their arses in terms of access to accommodation and they have hundreds/thousands of families waiting for accommodation. The law is clear: you get offered accommodation if you're entitled, if you turn it down you're on your own.

In fact the children should not be punished at all. Children's services should provide accommodation on the basis that not to do so would leave the children at risk of harm. They have done so for a month and are now pushing the woman to make her own arrangements. Please remember every penny of rent paid for this family to stay in hotels is public money from your and my pockets. We are obligated to ensure it's spent very carefully.

randomstress · 05/12/2023 20:14

What is true is that the council has an obligation to house dc and not parents.
It is a very hard line to take and isn't usually considered.
But if the authorities believe your friend is playing the system in some way I can imagine them explaining where their legal obligations actually start and end.
I have known of situations in very crowded areas where housing via voluntary accommodation is what is offered to children only, often with another option of being housed as a family out of borough.

Bobtheamazinggingerdog · 05/12/2023 20:15

ConcernedCitizenUK · 05/12/2023 20:11

Why not? There is nothing more to it. I have all the correspondence.

I'll double check when the social workers got involved but I'm pretty sure it was straight after she went to the police and family courts etc.

Pretty sure it was the social services that helped her get emergency accommodation but I'll confirm to be sure.

But I'm not sure why a social worker can't have been helping her for a two year period.

Show quote history

Because. You said yourself there are no safeguarding concerns. A social worker might have been involved 2 years ago when she fled but they would have closed the case as soon as they were settled. You have no idea the pressures on social workers and caseloads. we get a huge amount of scrutiny for children on child in need plans for longer than 12 months and we only keep those families open where they are really in need of the service and there are complex issues at play. There is absolutely zero, zero chance that a social worker has been hanging around in the background doing nothing of any use but visiting the children monthly for 2 years, just waiting for her to be offered accommodation. Absolutely zero chance.

Bigpaintinglittlepainting · 05/12/2023 20:16

Give IDAS a call tomorrow and say she needs to flee and will accept refuge anywhere

Original poster
ConcernedCitizenUK · 05/12/2023 20:19

Bobtheamazinggingerdog · 05/12/2023 20:15

Because. You said yourself there are no safeguarding concerns. A social worker might have been involved 2 years ago when she fled but they would have closed the case as soon as they were settled. You have no idea the pressures on social workers and caseloads. we get a huge amount of scrutiny for children on child in need plans for longer than 12 months and we only keep those families open where they are really in need of the service and there are complex issues at play. There is absolutely zero, zero chance that a social worker has been hanging around in the background doing nothing of any use but visiting the children monthly for 2 years, just waiting for her to be offered accommodation. Absolutely zero chance.

Show quote history

I don't even think there was any monthly visit to children. As far as I'm aware there was just texts and calls to my friend about accommodation and that's it. But I'll confirm as I may be wrong. I don't claim to have every minute detail of her 2 year back story memorised.

OP posts:
Bobtheamazinggingerdog · 05/12/2023 20:20

Bigpaintinglittlepainting · 05/12/2023 20:16

Give IDAS a call tomorrow and say she needs to flee and will accept refuge anywhere

She did flee, 2 years ago. Do you really think it's the best use of a refuge place (not to mention the impact on the kids) to fraudulently take a refuge place from a woman who genuinely needs safety?

Bobtheamazinggingerdog · 05/12/2023 20:20

ConcernedCitizenUK · 05/12/2023 20:19

I don't even think there was any monthly visit to children. As far as I'm aware there was just texts and calls to my friend about accommodation and that's it. But I'll confirm as I may be wrong. I don't claim to have every minute detail of her 2 year back story memorised.

Show quote history

That wasn't a social worker then. Social worker is a protected title and a very specific role acting under specific sections of the children act.

Original poster
ConcernedCitizenUK · 05/12/2023 20:23

Bigpaintinglittlepainting · 05/12/2023 20:16

Give IDAS a call tomorrow and say she needs to flee and will accept refuge anywhere

Who is IDAS?

The only trouble is she's not fleeing now so it would be a lie, and the authorities know it would be a lie. So wouldn't that be a risky move that could back backfire if she tells bare faced lies just to gain advantage from the system?

OP posts:
Bobtheamazinggingerdog · 05/12/2023 20:25

ConcernedCitizenUK · 05/12/2023 20:23

Who is IDAS?

The only trouble is she's not fleeing now so it would be a lie, and the authorities know it would be a lie. So wouldn't that be a risky move that could back backfire if she tells bare faced lies just to gain advantage from the system?

Show quote history

Yes.
It would also be sickeningly unethical.

randomstress · 05/12/2023 20:28

I have to agree that a social worker isn't going to have remained involved with the family for two years with no reason.
Either the case was closed and reopened or some other support has been offered to mum.

She can't claim she is fleeing DA when she isn't. It will become clear she isn't and cause her more problems.

Original poster
ConcernedCitizenUK · 05/12/2023 20:32

Bobtheamazinggingerdog · 05/12/2023 20:20

That wasn't a social worker then. Social worker is a protected title and a very specific role acting under specific sections of the children act.

Show quote history

Just checked with her and it definitely was 2 years ago when she went to police.

Just asking her now the other questions about monthly visits to her kids and whether it was definitely a social worker from social services but pretty sure it was.

How are you so sure a social worker can't have casual contact with DV victims without formal monthly sessions checking on the kids etc?

If there is no specific flag on the kids or care order on the kids then a structured monthly check up wouldn't be needed.

I was in care as a kid myself and was under a care order and had those monthly meetings. I don't think you have to do those to be regarded as a social worker. Depends on what type of work you're doing.

If she's highly functional and the kids are seen to be clearly well looked after then all of that wouldn't be necessary. She's just as capable as anyone in this group of looking she her kids. If you met her you would not think this is a woman who has any issues.

She just ended up in an abusive marriage and took the step to remove her and her children from that situation for their well being.

It would not be seen in a very positive light if women fleeing domestic violence faced automatic scrutiny from social workers when reporting DV. That would obviously discourage DV victims from coming forward.

No offence but none of us want social workers in our lives more than is necessary

OP posts:
User2346522 · 05/12/2023 20:33

The social worker organised hotels for a few weeks and tried to change the councils minds and then now have said they will no longer fund hotels and if she doesnt find housing by tomorrow they will take her kids and put them in foster care.

Is this literally what the social worker said? It's now the day after you started this thread so we must assume that the social worker has already started the paperwork to put the two kids in foster care? If this isn't the case, then people need to ask what other facts in this story were embellished or exaggerated for effect?

You started a thread where a mother is going to lose her children if she doesn't find housing within 24 hours. This seems like an impossible task for any members of the public to assist with. Every year around Christmas, there are threads on MN that implore the public for help on an impossibly heart-wrenching situation. Not implying that this story is made up, but it just seems too improbable for online strangers to be able to offer any genuine assistance within the deadline you stated. Short of anyone sending cash via DM of course...

MileyWiley · 05/12/2023 20:35

They absolutely don’t lift the intentionally homeless status after 6 months

Bigpaintinglittlepainting · 05/12/2023 20:39

You would tell the exact story from the op, say she is homeless due to DV, there are different types of accommodation and dispersed living maybe suitable for her. It's all North Yorkshire so she will have to be willing to move there. She is homeless through DV, normally the council would be informed that the man in the relationship is a perpetrator and he would be asked to surrender the tenancy. This is normally using a DV charity.

Bigpaintinglittlepainting · 05/12/2023 20:41

I mean it is a homing issue but she wouldn't be homeless if it wasn't for dv and the council letting the perpetrator carry on the tenancy. She she report to the police ?

LaurieStrode · 05/12/2023 20:42

Witsend101 · 05/12/2023 19:56

This thread is so depressing. So basically if you are brave enough to leave a DV situation but make one mistake in turning down a council flat then you are condemned forever from having other accommodation offered even when there are children involved ?? I can't get my head around this nor the fact that lots of people think this is OK. Why are the children being punished because of this bureaucratic nonsense

She's been in emergency accommodation for two years. What has she been doing in that time to upskill / earn her livelihood / make a plan? Then turns down a flat?!?

At some point the largesse has to end. We all need to take responsibility for ourselves.

Original poster
ConcernedCitizenUK · 05/12/2023 20:42

User2346522 · 05/12/2023 20:33

The social worker organised hotels for a few weeks and tried to change the councils minds and then now have said they will no longer fund hotels and if she doesnt find housing by tomorrow they will take her kids and put them in foster care.

Is this literally what the social worker said? It's now the day after you started this thread so we must assume that the social worker has already started the paperwork to put the two kids in foster care? If this isn't the case, then people need to ask what other facts in this story were embellished or exaggerated for effect?

You started a thread where a mother is going to lose her children if she doesn't find housing within 24 hours. This seems like an impossible task for any members of the public to assist with. Every year around Christmas, there are threads on MN that implore the public for help on an impossibly heart-wrenching situation. Not implying that this story is made up, but it just seems too improbable for online strangers to be able to offer any genuine assistance within the deadline you stated. Short of anyone sending cash via DM of course...

What the hell are you on about? You think I'd go to all this trouble, 9 pages of discussion, for a phishing scam?

I do not need any money from anyone on this site. It will not help the situation. What I need is simply advice on what best steps to take.

As I said, she was offered Foster care for the kids as an accommodation option if she couldn't find anything. Because the authority has taken the stance that they have a duty to house the kids but not her. She was not under threat of paper work being raised to come and take her kids away.

People mentioned, and it sounds correct, that court orders in front of judges need to be raised to remove kids forcibly.

I think in all likeliness it was a bluff to force her to go sleep on her sisters sofa.

Obviously she was able to find somewhere to spend the night. When push comes to shove noone is going to sleep rough or lose their kids to Foster care if they can avoid it.

I find it funny that you sit on mums net trying to expose people's threads as non genuine, like you're doing some sort of great service to mums net.

I wonder what drives people to come to this site not to help people but to simply accuse threads of being ingenuine. That's a real great use of time.

OP posts:
Bobtheamazinggingerdog · 05/12/2023 20:42

ConcernedCitizenUK · 05/12/2023 20:32

Just checked with her and it definitely was 2 years ago when she went to police.

Just asking her now the other questions about monthly visits to her kids and whether it was definitely a social worker from social services but pretty sure it was.

How are you so sure a social worker can't have casual contact with DV victims without formal monthly sessions checking on the kids etc?

If there is no specific flag on the kids or care order on the kids then a structured monthly check up wouldn't be needed.

I was in care as a kid myself and was under a care order and had those monthly meetings. I don't think you have to do those to be regarded as a social worker. Depends on what type of work you're doing.

If she's highly functional and the kids are seen to be clearly well looked after then all of that wouldn't be necessary. She's just as capable as anyone in this group of looking she her kids. If you met her you would not think this is a woman who has any issues.

She just ended up in an abusive marriage and took the step to remove her and her children from that situation for their well being.

It would not be seen in a very positive light if women fleeing domestic violence faced automatic scrutiny from social workers when reporting DV. That would obviously discourage DV victims from coming forward.

No offence but none of us want social workers in our lives more than is necessary

Show quote history

I know this because I've been a social worker for nearly 20 years. I'm currently a team manager so managing caseloads, referrals and throughput is a big part of my job. Social workers work within the law and as part of their involvement with families they MUST visit the children. Anyone who is just texting or calling a parent without visiting isn't a social worker. They might be a support worker, a housing worker, early help worker but NOT a social worker.

Of course different social workers do different things. Some work with adults or children with disabilities or hospital discharge. There are different bit of legislation that they work under. But in NO case could a social worker be casually involved for 2 years dropping texts to your mate without a formal plan, visits and reviews, and that wouldn't have happened without very good reasons.

Bigpaintinglittlepainting · 05/12/2023 20:43

Is the father still having access to the children?

Original poster
ConcernedCitizenUK · 05/12/2023 20:46

LaurieStrode · 05/12/2023 20:42

She's been in emergency accommodation for two years. What has she been doing in that time to upskill / earn her livelihood / make a plan? Then turns down a flat?!?

At some point the largesse has to end. We all need to take responsibility for ourselves.

Show quote history

Thanks for your clearly very genuine concern on her employability.

She's been studying for GCSE English and maths and hopes to move on to A levels. Online studying. She'd like to get to uni when the kids grow up a bit more.

OP posts:
Original poster
ConcernedCitizenUK · 05/12/2023 20:48

Bigpaintinglittlepainting · 05/12/2023 20:43

Is the father still having access to the children?

No he's not attempted to see them. She doesn't want face to face contact with him but she'd be OK with going via a contact centre or some sort of safe mechanism.

He used to say he'd kill her if she ever left him and she's genuinely scared he'll just knife her if he ever gets to go face to face with her again

OP posts:
Bigpaintinglittlepainting · 05/12/2023 20:52

So she is still in fear of him ? And he doesn't have access, definitely call IDAS or see if there other DV charities that sort refuge or dispersed accommodation for victims

Bigpaintinglittlepainting · 05/12/2023 20:56

I don't know where you are but google your area then dispersed accommodation and domestic violence refuge, she will still be considered a victim and still be considered for refuge, she has exhausted the council option. The only other option is to get your local domestic violence charity to support her or Shelter.

User2346522 · 05/12/2023 21:00

I wonder what drives people to come to this site not to help people but to simply accuse threads of being ingenuine. That's a real great use of time.

I actually do believe this is genuine but I have problems believing many of the details you put into the story. How do you expect to be taken seriously if you add "facts" which increase the emotive urgency of your plea but which make the entire story pointless when taken within context? So did the social worker really give the mum a deadline of December 5th 2023 to find a new home? If not, why did you write it in here?

You mentioned contacting journalists and not getting a reply. I'm not sure if you used this exact story including "she has until tomorrow to find a new home". Journalists can recognise patterns and inconsistencies from a mile away. They will not take the story seriously if it contains wholly implausible ultimatums and time frames.

Original poster
ConcernedCitizenUK · 05/12/2023 21:01

Bobtheamazinggingerdog · 05/12/2023 20:42

I know this because I've been a social worker for nearly 20 years. I'm currently a team manager so managing caseloads, referrals and throughput is a big part of my job. Social workers work within the law and as part of their involvement with families they MUST visit the children. Anyone who is just texting or calling a parent without visiting isn't a social worker. They might be a support worker, a housing worker, early help worker but NOT a social worker.

Of course different social workers do different things. Some work with adults or children with disabilities or hospital discharge. There are different bit of legislation that they work under. But in NO case could a social worker be casually involved for 2 years dropping texts to your mate without a formal plan, visits and reviews, and that wouldn't have happened without very good reasons.

Show quote history

Well maybe your authority works differently. This IS how social services have been operating with her for the last 2 years. I asked her and she said she had two visits at her sisters house altogether to see her kids.

I've also checked the email from the MP and she had a referral made to the children's services when she refused the accommodation

OP posts: