Should you only have kids if you're prepared to put them first?

[Lou98767]

Myself and my partner are considering starting a family together and so have been discussing at length what having kids means to us and if our values on it align.

A big reason for this is that my partner has struggled with his relationship with his dad. His parents divorced when he was 15 and his dad went onto re-marry not long after. Over the years it's become clear that his dad's priority has moved from his kids to his partner and at times it's weighed very heavily on him, feeling as if the new family his dads created with his wife and her children comes first. His dad is really dedicated in some ways, but quite dismissive in others and he's found that hard.
I think he lives with a heavy weight of not feeling enough even long into his adult life.

For us, we've agreed that children are a privilege and if we're not prepared to dedicate our lives to ensuring they are happy and fulfilled then we will stay child-free. It's not to say we'll be slaves to kids if we have them, just that we will be dedicated to doing what it takes for them to feel secure at every age, not just 0-18. Even in divorce, we're both aligned on that when kids are involved the family unit remains forever, even if parents are apart as for kids that's important.

Very interested to know from other mums-netters if they've had similar discussions or similar experiences themselves when it came to deciding whether or not to have kids?
Are there other important things you considered when choosing to have kids?

Did you discuss getting married before having children?

@HelpNeededBeforeIHaveABreakdown

We already are, have been together over 10 years and married for 3. Sorry we both tend to default to saying partner as we did for so long before!

Yes, I absolutely think you should put your children's needs first. And that means their needs and not their wants, which is the gist of your post if I understand correctly. :-)

E.g. Shielding kids from unhappiness and making them feel like they are the sole focus of your life does not satisfy your kids' need to be able to learn to deal with their emotions and their need to be able to differentiate themselves gradually from their parents.

I think almost everything I considered fell under the umbrella term of whether we would be able to fulfil our kids' needs. In addition I also wondered for a long time how to justify having a child in the first place. To me it seems like an inherently selfish act and I kept thinking if bringing a non existent life to life has any benefit for said currently non existing life. I had to finally admit to myself that it doesn't and that having a child is something I'd just be doing for myself to satisfy my want for a child. So I'd say I considered my child's need from the point of conception but not before that. (Hope that makes sens).

I put my children first so I am a stay at home mother.

I put my children first so I am a stay at home mother
There's always someone who wants to create a working mum/stay at home mum bun fight.

For us, we've agreed that children are a privilege and if we're not prepared to dedicate our lives to ensuring they are happy and fulfilled then we will stay child-free. It's not to say we'll be slaves to kids if we have them, just that we will be dedicated to doing what it takes for them to feel secure at every age, not just 0-18. Even in divorce, we're both aligned on that when kids are involved the family unit remains forever, even if parents are apart as for kids that's important.

Obviously it's a good idea to think about logistics etc before having children, but I don't think the kind of planning you describe is at all realistic. If that kind of theoretical moral agreement worked, nobody who had made their marriage vows would ever get divorced.

We never had that conversation before having children. But we both just took it for granted that our children would always come first. And that is what we have done.
I believe that if you have children you have a responsibility to them to put them first and for them to know that they come first. Couples who say they will always put their partner first are wrong in my opinion.

Agree with the PP who advised drilling down to what ‘doing the best for the child(ren)’ means day to day. Overall most people will naturally prioritise their kids wellbeing, and it’s pretty easy not to be a shit parent. But everyone’s idea of what a great parent is, or what putting the child first looks like, will be different. One person’s ‘putting them first’ can look very like martyrdom to another, equally caring, parent.

I agree with you. Children and their needs come first. I remember my dad saying that having children changes everything - if you are doing it right. And two kids later, I agree. Ours are 13 and 16 now so DH and I are getting a bit more of our own lives back, but we still drop or adjust what we are doing when they need us to.

my sister chose not to have children. She didn’t want to risk resenting them and was worried about mental consequences of having to put herself second: she’s quite an anxious person and depends on having her own routines and a lot of control over her day-to-day life to be happy. so having kids was not for her.

I agree that kids need to come first. Divorce can be messy and kids can end up being used as footballs. That said, people on the other end of the spectrum who expect babies to slot into their current lives are not being realistic either, so to an extent if you have a baby you will end up prioritising them whether you plan to or not.

My parents separated when I was 12. DH and I had that conversation. Total security was a priority for our children. It shaped my 20s, it shaped my choice of husband. All I ever wanted was to be a mummy to happy children.

They are grown up now. We are a close family

I had my daughter at 19 and it was unplanned. Yes she always came first but I had to build my life too and it takes lots of support to do this but I wanted to add that parenting isn’t black and white. Yes you put their needs first and I have found that you have to have the time to get to know them, their personalities, their needs whilst also being a role model. Do what I say not as I do doesn’t always work…

I am surrounded by women that are quite ambitious with children who put their children first but also juggle working.

I am also close to a few ambitious women who now have grown up children that have ended up fine and what is important is that we as parents make them feel secure, loved and that we are always there for them.

Wanted to add another perspective as I do feel that working mums or ambitious mums that raise amazing children who are sound, hard workers and successful in their own rights also exist. I also know SAHM who have adult children that are off the rails and vice versa.

Also life happens and although we try our best we cannot control everything.

What could his parents have done differently to avoid the divorce and prevent this feeling in your DH? Who knows, but maybe there’s an argument to suggest one should always prioritise their spouse in order to make the most stable family unit for LOs.

Yes and no. When it comes to safety and security, yes - I won’t just decide I fancy a trip round the world, or move 200 miles away for a new job, or spend the family savings on Botox and a new car because I’m worth it. You do have to make a commitment to routine, familiarity and sensible decisions.

When it comes to the day to day, it should be a healthy mix of what makes everyone in the house happy. I do believe modern parenting is a confusing mix of permissiveness and martyrdom, I know I’m seen as strict because I tell my 4 year old she’s annoying me if (for example) she won’t stop jumping on me and digging her elbows in. I think it’s important for children to realise adults are also people with feelings, not servitudinal robots who never feel tired/pain/annoyance.

@theprincessthepea great post completely agree

Also think to an extent life is unpredictable (even if OP mitigates for divorce, anything could happen) but literally everyone learns that at some point. It’s part of life & growing up.

Parenting is a transformative experience. I think you can talk about it but you won't know what it will be like for you and your family once you have a child. It's great that you are committing to do the right thing. It might be even more difficult to your partner to come to terms with his father once he becomes a father.

Also I think it's important to talk about your values, what parenting style you think would work for you so that you are on the same page with the major things. A friend had a child and it turned out her DH expected her to be a stay at home mum which she didn't plant at all, for example.

Yes, useful to consider how you would divide up care, work and finance. Impact on reduction in work hours might have on career, pension etc.

Whether your ideas on feeding, sleep discipline align.

Also, as you are it seems, to consider later stages including parenting a teenager.

These kinds of conversations are all well and good, however people do change as well and unexpected life events occur that alter the course of events, despite best intentions and plans.

I agree. My daughter comes first over everyone, including myself. That doesn’t mean that she always gets what she wants or that we don’t have consequences for negative behaviours etc. It also doesn’t mean that I don’t still find time for my own passions. However my overriding priority is her safety, happiness & wellbeing & that takes precedence over everything else & has from the moment she was born.

Kids come first always, BUT one day they will leave the nest, start their own families, and their kids and partner even, come before you, so yes while they are children/still dependent on your care they come first but then I believe it is time to start putting your partner and yourself first xx

He has baggage. Move on.

Is your mom responsible for making you feel secure at 30? Not his dad, your mom? If they are responsible for making you feel safe at 30 you logically must do as they say as if you were 10 for the rest of their life. You see how silly that is? Heck some would say at 16 or early people have agency outside their parents for self happiness. Gosh the world is goofy.

His family broke apart. Sounds like he needs therapy because his dad a jerk. It seems to be interring with his relationships in life. His parents likely intended on being present and raising awesome humans. But people split. And people are themselves. You can’t be perfect and expect a perfect outcome. The dad does not want to make the same mistake with his older kids and their mom. So he is overdoing with the ‘new’ family. I think he questions his own inability to stay in a relationship. Or thinks himself less than cause of rejection. He could very well have a baby with some woman 10 years from now. Do you really want to make decisions on you having a family based on him who does not have a biological clock cause of his baggage and ignore yourself in this?

I find it odd no mention of mom.

He is alive and well and strong. What else is needed?

I believe that the best for your children when they are ADULTS is to have given them the best training TO BE adults. I have a step parent who thinks you help your kids forever and ever until the end of time- what they have is a 50 year old child who runs to them for everything and cannot manage to be an adult; think paying their council tax when in arrears, paying their rent so they don't get evicted, being hours on the phone about their UC, picking up medication when they are too depressed to go. I think my step parent has failed in their job to bring up their child to be a functioning member of society. My children will not have this set up!

I used to think as you. But as you mention depression to get meds I think it has more to do with the adult child and less the parent. I look to my own kid who has special needs. He has a very limited scheduled part time job. He will always need some support. There is nothing I can do. A person with depression it comes and goes and is very unpredictable. And self medicating through substance abuse is highly likely, and would be compounding the problem. Some have partners and some have parents. A capable person needs a hands off approach, but some just don’t have the IQ or EQ to be on their own. You can not parent away depression.

Absolutely this. Yes of course it's important to put children first and most parents do. But it's not healthy for parents or children to do this at the expense of parents needs being met. For example if I'm ill, I need to rest and recuperate and this make my DC unhappy because they want to be with me. And if I'm on holiday from work then I'll absolutely still send my DC to nursery on some of those days. They may want to be with me but I absolutely need time and space to myself to recharge to allow me to be a better parent. I don't subscribe to this notion that to be a good parent means martyring yourself to your children.

Likewise it isn't possible or healthy to make your children happy all the time at all ages. It simply isn't possible as they get teenagers and adults to shield them for hardships and unhappiness and to allow them to be resilient and healthy adults they need to see that the world doesn't revolve around them and they need the skills to deal with life's adversities. This doesn't come from parents bending over backwards to keep them happy at all costs.

I also really think it's unrealistic and unhealthy to dedicate your life to keep your children secure at whatever age. I'm in my 30s now and since my late teens and 20s my parents have lived their own lives. They are there for me of course but I'm happy now I'm an adult they put themselves first and aren't still treating me like some infant child trying to make sure all my needs and wants are met. I can't imagine anything more worse or suffocating.

I think that most mothers do this. However so many men have kids, but still want the weekends for themselves - usually watching sport or playing sport.

I don't think it's reasonable to expect your spouse to spend their weekends on their own with the kids so that you can selfishly pursue your hobbies as if you did when you didn't have a family.

I don't think those guys should have children because it's not fair on anyone.