Should you only have kids if you're prepared to put them first?

[Lou98767]

Myself and my partner are considering starting a family together and so have been discussing at length what having kids means to us and if our values on it align.

A big reason for this is that my partner has struggled with his relationship with his dad. His parents divorced when he was 15 and his dad went onto re-marry not long after. Over the years it's become clear that his dad's priority has moved from his kids to his partner and at times it's weighed very heavily on him, feeling as if the new family his dads created with his wife and her children comes first. His dad is really dedicated in some ways, but quite dismissive in others and he's found that hard.
I think he lives with a heavy weight of not feeling enough even long into his adult life.

For us, we've agreed that children are a privilege and if we're not prepared to dedicate our lives to ensuring they are happy and fulfilled then we will stay child-free. It's not to say we'll be slaves to kids if we have them, just that we will be dedicated to doing what it takes for them to feel secure at every age, not just 0-18. Even in divorce, we're both aligned on that when kids are involved the family unit remains forever, even if parents are apart as for kids that's important.

Very interested to know from other mums-netters if they've had similar discussions or similar experiences themselves when it came to deciding whether or not to have kids?
Are there other important things you considered when choosing to have kids?

We have and are probably quite similar to you. We planned what would happen should we divorce before we were pregnant. DS is the centre of our world and everyone is very happy with this. It works for us but everyone is different

I think children's needs should come first. Certainly before either the wants of adults or the wants of children themselves.

I'm talking about the basics: security, stability, food, water and shelter - not holidays, activities, pets or toys.

Agree with you about the family unit, my parents are divorced but my dad and his new partner always invite my mum's parents to his family events. It's very reassuring for my youngest brothers that they still have one family, even if our parents live separately with their new partners.

Interesting. We didn’t actually have that sort of direct conversation (we probably should have) but we spoke a lot about our upbringings and what was good and what was not so good (!) and wider sort of family issues/dynamics etc and I think we were and are both pretty clear that our approaches and values were/are aligned. And yes I think you have to be prepared to make sacrifices for your children - not that all their wants/desires come first but their needs (love, security, support to achieve their potential and learn the skills they need to be independent and responsible adults) does have to be prioritised as far as possible.

I think most half decent parents think that.

It’s possible your partners Dad does too

'For us, we've agreed that children are a privilege and if we're not prepared to dedicate our lives to ensuring they are happy and fulfilled then we will stay child-free.'

Very smart. DP and I thought very long and hard about having children. Cutting a very long story short, we decided that the sacrifices and the relentless responsibility were not for us, so we won't be having children

I think it's so important to be realistic about how your lives would change if you became parents, and how you would feel about that. Some people become parents without a clue what children need or how to parent them, and expect it to all just work out like some sort of fairytale. I think you absolutely do need to consider your children's needs first and foremost if you're a parent, and not kid yourself that they're resilient/ can cope with anything etc

I’d agree this sort of thing goes without saying but with the history involved it’s understandable to have that sort of convo.

I’d also discuss how you’re going to split child care, manage the chores, taking the kids to clubs and parties, play dates etc and make sure you have a partner who will pull his weight. My dh who is good and does lots with the kids, more than most of my friends partners but he said everything would be 50/50 before we had kids and it’s not, I still work and balance most of the mental load, and have to delegate jobs out to him.

E.g who is going to get the kids uniforms washed and ironed and all the uniforms for their activity clubs sorted, their lunches made, bags packed for school in the morning . Who will arrange play dates, keep up with the parent friends, go to pta events, help with the homework, buy their friends birthday presents, take them to the dentist / hairdresser, buy them new clothes, choose and buy their birthday and xmas presents, wrap said presents, arrange parties, tidy the house, go to the parents evenings, concerts, do the shopping, cooking, and arrange some date nights for yourselves on top of any jobs you might have. Who will do the night feeds. And so on….thats what your life will be like. :)

Sorry if I sound a little harsh but I don't think good parenting is dedicating your life to ensuring your kids are happy and fulfilled.

There is so much to unpick there imho and a big, squishy, attachment parent softy.

1. obviously in the early part you have to be 100% dedicated to their needs but as they grow it's important to foster independence and resilience which means encountering difficulties and unhappiness and working through it. Not being shielded from it.

2. what makes children happy isn't always good for them. My kids understand that as their parent I will make decisions they don't like, but that I believe are in their best interests overalls.

3. parents are human beings with their own needs, it's healthy for children to see this. You shouldn't be sacrificing stuff for them constantly. It should be a mixture.

All of this is the context of a normal life: maintain contact through tricky periods, be emotionally available, support things they care about. you guys sound great anyway, you're giving it so much thought already. I just have experience of people who raised as the only priority and shielded from unhappiness and it doesn't make for resilient adults or great mental health outcomes in my experience.

I feel for your DH as my father did this. Left us, started a new life with his new wife and family, and treats them as his children, but us, his first kids, as distant nieces/nephews. He will visit once a year if we are lucky, has no relationship with my kids at all, and has zero insight.

The best thing for me was to have kids, and although I’m divorced and single, I put them first every time. One has quite severe SEN. I think I’m a better parent because of not having a father. My Ex, unfortunately, is similar to my father and I do wish that I’d chosen better. However he presented as the ultimate kind, responsible family man (but ended up cheating on me).

So you can’t control everything in your kids life, you can’t even with the best of intentions control what their other parent does. But you can control your own parenting. My kids have a stability I never had, even if it comes from just me.

I think you’re being idealistic, which is not uncommon before the realities of family life hit.

It’s right to go into it aiming to be the best parents you can be, but it’s OK to compromise, and to be ‘good enough’.

I think it’s good that you’re having the conversations. Before we had children, we had similar conversations having both had less than ideal childhoods in different ways.

We have 2 children, they’ve always been the main focus and we’re fortunate to have enjoyed parenting. I don’t think it has to be just idealistic before realities set in like a pp said, it’s possible to actually live it. We were prepared for our lives to change and never resented that we couldn’t do everything exactly like before. We were both on the same page so it was never really difficult. I think we’ve both always felt really supported by the other, and the kids know they’re adored. Their upbringing is a million miles from both of ours thankfully!

I do agree that kids needs should come first in general. I do think it's important that they also learn that other people's needs are also important though, and that sometimes that will mean they have to come second. Example: Yes, I did promise to take you to the park today but Mummy woke up feeling really sick, so can't take you today, I'll take you when I'm feeling better, maybe another day. That teaches empathy and compassion.

We have always put our children first, they are our priority, our two DS are adults now, still live at home, but they always come first. DH & I have always agreed on that. I agree with PP, what you think before children arrives and what actually happens are two totally different things. The decision to have children will change your relationship as a couple. For us having our DS has made our lives, no regrets whatsoever, every sacrifice has been worth it.

Their needs should be prioritised however that sometimes means balancing these against others factors and of course their needs change as they grow and develop. They need to feel loved, safe and secure which they get from firm but fair consistent boundaries as much as cuddles and kisses. I also think they need to learn about compromise and to value the needs of others though. I don't think parents lives should stop or that their needs should not be considered. Families are units that work when everyone holds each other as equally important and consider the needs of others and how individuals actions impact on this.

Unfortunately the reality of children vs the ideology can be very different and most of us just do the best we can with the information we have at the time. Life always turns up with a curveball

I would describe it more like also putting them first. It's adding on another responsibility along with prioritizing your health, your marriage, etc. You can't actually put them first or something else with fail. So yes you have to put them first, alongside everything else that is top priority. It takes up a lot of energy emotional and physically. But it's also something that gives back, in my experience more than it takes. Hope that makes sense!

Yes.

You won't find many parents who will tell you that they don't put their kids first.

Even those who have made a complete mess of parenting - people with complex issues which mean they have certainly not been able to put their kids first, will tell you that they always put their kids first. And in their eyes, that is true.

The realities of life, and human nature, do get in the way of things, and things can become messy and complicated.

But it's right to go into it with good intentions. I am the same.

I think another important thing to consider is your approaches to parenting and your own upbringing. Me and DH are aware that we had very different upbringings and that our approaches to parenting will be a little bit different when/ if we have a child. We agree on the important things but there are a few things which we see differently. It's important to have conversations about how you will manage that if you don't quite agree.

Thank you everyone for replies they’re all so interesting and useful! Looks like there’s lots still to think about and discuss and I really appreciate the time taken to give all these insights and thoughts.

We know there’s all sorts we’ll never be able to plan for as having kids is such a complex thing. We’ll learn and grow but trying to make the best and most honest decision now is our priority and this has all hugely helped.

I think @booksandbrooks's post has done great advice.
Also, I'd maybe talk about the specifics of what "putting the kids first" actually looks like on a day to day basis. For some, this means you never let a young child cry, even if you don't get to pee alone for 4 years. For others it means you take a second job so you can give your children a better quality of life - although it means you have less time with them. For others it means you turn down that promotion (that would allow you a better standard of living) so that you can have more time with them.
For some, "putting the kids first" means doing the unpleasant work of correcting, rebuking or punishing bad behaviour. For others it means taking a gentler approach.
And, be prepared for the reality of parenting to cause you to revisit those conversations regularly and see if your stance has changed. I'm reminded of the saying "parenting was so much easier when my children were imaginary and my decisions were hypothetical"!

Said kindly, this is lovely idealistic thinking of people who haven't yet had kids or got divorced 😂 not to say it's not a good thing to talk about, but be aware reality might not be as straightforwards. Just keep talking as you go is the best thing and don't be too rigid with expectations.

For us, we've agreed that children are a privilege and if we're not prepared to dedicate our lives to ensuring they are happy and fulfilled then we will stay child-free
I think this is one of those things that sounds nice but in reality doesn't work.

For example, I think a lot of harm is done by parents who think their job is to ensure their children are always happy. A full range of emotions is normal and healthy, whereas only wanting children to be happy can lead to giving a child an age-appropriate level of control with parents bending over backwards out of fear their children will experience something other than happiness.

I also think that the outlook of dedicating a life to revolve around making sure children are fulfilled often comes with parents losing any identity or interests they have, not investing in their romantic relationships and then when the children grownup, the parents have an ocean between them because for the last 18 years everything has been about the child.

Personally, I'd say it's our job to love our children, meet their needs (but not always their wants) and to raise them into rounded, functioning adults who can find their own fulfilment in life.

Some wise advice here. I would also add that actually as your children reach adulthood you have to let them go. That means you need something else for yourself.

At that stage you might need to focus more on your partner. When that is the dc’s dad, it’s not a problem. When it’s not, it seems to be hard to balance.

I can see as well how younger children do in fact displace older ones because of their higher needs. I can’t be around a little one without them being the focus. It’s how I’m engineered, hormonally, I think! I get distracted and don’t listen properly because I’m looking at the baby!

For us , meeting everyone's needs is important. We can't take care of our child if we haven't also taken care of our own needs too. Ds needs are a higher priority of course. We also know that we can't keep him happy all the time. At times our decisions for his well being and safety will make him unhappy and that's OK too. Letting them feel emotions in a healthy way is good for them. The end goal is to teach them to be independent adults.

I’d agree with this. There’s more to life than just having kids. They can be hardwork, ungrateful and demanding, and then they grow up and leave home - my sister hasn’t seen her son since he left for university and that was four years ago. She gets a card at Christmas, that’s it. !.

Personally there’s more to me than being a parent, a lot more. I love them dearly but they’re not the reason I get out of bed and they don’t “ complete me “.

Don’t live your live through your kids. It’s not fair on them either.

I honestly don't think that you really have a choice in putting them first once they're here- if you're a fundamentally decent person. They take over everything and I can't imagine them not being my priority when they're adults too. I wouldn't say I was a 'natural' born Mother either, but they are mini dictators and eventually you develop Stockholm syndrome!