Ex left for a minor

[Itsthelittlethingz]

Hi all I posted a last month to say my/children's father who is 31 left to start a relationship with a 15 yo girl.
The girl reached out to me to tell me about the relationship and told me she 'cried to him to stop seeing our children' to which he did.

I contacted the police, who are apparently investigating however she is now 16 and is 'in love with him' so I don't think there it is a legal matter anymore. - just morally wrong.

His mum has now wrote me a letter pleading with me to see my children as their dad has now moved out of her home and moved in to his girlfriend's family home. They are now engaged in less than a year. She's 16 he is 31.

His mum has said she didn't get the chance to explain to me that - the girl has severe mental health problems (which I have reason to believe) but that the girl also has borderline personality disorder? and is a compulsive liar.

I noticed how she once again didn't say anything about her adult son.

If you were in my position would you stop all contact with his side or allow the children contact with their nan as they do love her. TIA

It sounds like she was nice to you when you and ex were together so I would meet up with her but I would explain in the letter that you don't want to discuss ex and you don't want her to discuss ex with the kids- ie you don't want to be her sounding board about her feelings about her son or hear updates. She must be mortified by her son's behaviour but your are absolutely right not to want to discuss it for your mental health.

It's a massive shitshow and I agree that it's baffling that the parents are ok with ex being her carer and shagging her but you're absolutely right to distance yourself from that.

*OP doesn’t need you to draft a note for her! Why do MNers do this, it’s bizarre.

OP let your children see their grandmother. Go somewhere neutral. No father chat or appearances at all.*

Yes, best to simply repeat advice that has already been said multiple times.

And has found it helpful so I apologise!

Thank you so much for your advice
I appreciate it, and thank you for not judging me!

This is very creepy , but you need to separate the two issues. I don’t feel the children should loose their grandmother due to the father being effectively a paedo, although I know there is another term when it’s underage pubescent girls.

I would facilitate contact with the grandmother for the children’s sake. This is not the girls fault, or the grandmothers. And she is also likely struggling to come to terms with this and the shame of it. She may not be handling it as you wish, but there will be some shock there.

and it’s not the girls fault either, she was 15, now 16. It’s sick and she’s been groomed and now beholden to an older man using her, she is also vulnerable to start, and even more so now. She is still a child.

On thé top of what @savoycabbage wrote, I’d have in mind a few stock answers if exMIL wants to talk to you or the dcs about their dad when you see her.

And I have to say, I’d be happy to review visits from grandma depending on her position regarding her son’s attitude. I don’t think I could cope with her thinking it’s all the 16yo fault and her adult son is innocent for example

I’d allow supervised visits with them in the home, purely to ensure that the father was not mentioned. At all.

And if she failed to adhere to that rule, I’d cut her off too.

😆well she seemed to appreciate it! Well done @savoycabbage - nicely written.

@Itsthelittlethingz how would you feel about her coming to see them at your house? Perhaps not the first time but after, if it goes well?

Absolutely @LittleBearPad often people are overwhelmed and struggle with words and it can be extremely useful to have a first draft to build from.

You don't need to do it, but why puss on other people trying to be helpful?

If it was me, I’d allow access supervised by me e.g. go out for lunch, to the zoo, etc. If she doesn’t clearly recognise the issue with her son starting up a relationship with a vulnerable child, what other problematic things doesn’t she recognise? I wouldn’t trust her to safeguard my kids.

It’s still a crime even after she’s turned 16 and I’d question how much of that love is grooming - especially if she has mental health issues.

Give it a few years when this girl grows older and then realises that a 30 year old man started a relationship with her when she was a child and she’ll be straight to the police. She doesn’t see it yet as she’s still a child but she’ll be freaked out in later life.

OP I would absolutely facilitate contact with grandma. Your kids are going through so much, and losing so much stability. A positive ongoing grandma presence will help them.

However, as others have said, you need to set safe boundaries. I'd say that includes agreeing that she never brings up the situation, the girl or their dad proactively with the kids.
Your kids may still ask her. You should agree what she can say. (Eg "where's daddy?/ how's daddy? Why haven't we seen daddy?" Can all be responded to "Daddy is going through some stuff right now so is away for a while. He loves you always though. And mummy and grandma are here.... let's do...." Or whatever fits for their age/what you are telling them yourself. You should get her agreement to this in writing in advance. I would also get her agreement that she must not use her contact in anyway to facilitate contact with her son or the girl. This is for her contact as a grandma, and she will lose those rights if she breaks these guidelines.

And yes, I would only meet her with you for now, out and about or at your place. She mum might be tempted to arrange some kind of meeting with their dad and/or the girl/ try to fix things somehow herself.... or they could turn up unexpectedly at the grandma's house while your kids are there.

I would not require her to condemn her son- and would tell her you don't want to discuss what has happened with you and ask her not to bring it up. again, you and she need to separate her relationship with her son completely from her contact as grandma.

She will no doubt be reeling with disgust, as you are- but there is no need to force a discussion or have her take sides.

I'm so sorry you are going through something so horrific.

Has you referred the new partner to social services? If her needs are as reported by his mum, she may not have capacity even if she is now 16, her parents are not stepping in and if anything are actively encouraged the relationship by allowing him to live there... whatever you think of her, she appears to be vulnerable and this highly unusual, and she is still legally a child.

I would talk to his mum. She may be just as baffled/mortified by the whole situation as you are. If she's prepared to stick to some ground rules, it may be nice for all of them for her to resume contact with the children. Her adult son's behaviour is not her responsibility.

Thank you all for you perspectives, his mum personally doesn't agree and is in shock. The girl has expressed to me that he HATES his mum. And his mum has told me she has been having heart problems because of the girl. So i'm guessing their has been a lot of drama between them.

I believe she already has Social Services involved because of her MH issues. She told me SS have been to tell her he has a previous conviction. (Armed robbery knife crime about 10 yrs ago)

Apparently the police have already been involved before I even knew about it as they got stopped at the airport together for potential child grooming.
The police contacted her mum who then authorised it so they were allowed to go ahead on the holiday. I was given this information 'officially' let's just say.

It's all so messed up and so many layers to it. The child abandonment, dealing with my children's emotions, the potential child grooming, the guilt and fear, the girls borderline personality disorder and why he is with a child let alone a vulnerable one... at the point I just want to forget about them. I wish we could just pack up and disappear

I would let her see your children especially as she's been in their lives since birth. As a grandparent myself this such a lovely relationship to have. As your children grow up I'm sure they'll appreciate you working hard to keep the relationship going. You do need to meet up with her first, explain your feelings and put boundaries in place. Tell her under no circumstances they are to be mentioned either to you or your children, she has one chance and if she doesn't stick to your request then you don't see her again. Best wishes going forward, it must have been a dreadful shock to you x

I would allow contact for the nan for the sake of the children, but only at either your home or somewhere public and with you supervising. I would make it clear beforehand that any mention of their father is banned otherwise contact would stop.

That's a really unfair comment.

Do you grandchildren via your son? I do and it would break my heart if my granddaughter's Mum said I couldn't see her any more.

OP, I think a separate relationship with Grandma is the way forward. Just visits or whatever you are used to.

I'm assuming Dad's not making any effort, so leave him out of it.

If she does have mental health issues it's even worse she was having a relationship with an adult and her parents encouraged it. I'd be calling nhpcc for advice.

And her not mentioning dad is difficult cause the children ask about him all the time, my daughter is heartbroken and says she loves him even if he doesn't love her and she misses him so much she wishes that she could see him. I am certain that when they see nan they will mention and ask her numerous questions. It's difficult for them both but I see my daughter really struggling it's almost like he's emotionally got her attached just to discard her. I am trying my best to fill her cup so she doesn't have this abandonment wound that I myself have from childhood. My son is not so emotional about it but my jaw dropped when he was watching something about betrayal and said - that's what dad did to us. He was 5 at the time. As I say there is so many layers to it but it's all hurtful to many involved including the girl even if she doesn't know it yet. If im honest I believe she thinks she has 'won' but she's a child and I guess her vulnerability was attractive to his sick predatory ways

I don't understand why you would drip her seeing them? They love her, she loves them.

Hopefully his mother ends up being as good as my exes Mum.

I facilitated her seeing my girls when he fucked off. With me at first, then eventually on their own. They have a lovely relationship with her. They haven't seen their father for many years now and their Granny hasn't seen her son for a long time.

I would be very blunt with her though - any defending of her son's actions in front of the children, or her deliberately bringing him up (different answering if the children do) and the catch up comes to an end.

It’s you thinking she’s won, you’ve no idea what this child is thinking, she’s vulnerable and being abused by your husband who groomed her.

Because when you get news like this you don't think logically you go into fight flight or freeze. I was extremely angry at first. She knew about this all along and didn't tell me. She would say things like 'I can never look at him the same way' and when I would ask what's up she would say 'nothing'

Then the girl told me his mum was lying for him, saying he doesn't live at her house any more when he did. It felt like distrust her supporting his ghosting. We didn't know where he had gone. But she did.

Due to the nature of the crime I was mortified - still am.

Now I think I am in flight where I dont want anything to do with him or the girl or hear any mention of him.

When he knows that he is getting attention good or bad. My daughter missing him etc his mum sending paragraphs about him etc I feel like he is getting some sort of satisfaction that people care.

I just want to move forward and do what is best for my children which is decide when your involved and emotions are high. Also because of the nature I'm not able to talk to anyone I know.

Meet her by yourself first and you can have that tricky conversation without the children being around. Set your boundaries and then organise a little get together at a soft play or similar so there isn’t a focus on the children. You can build up from there.

I really hope the children do not know about this girls age. All adults would be responsible for protecting the children to know their father is a child abuser.