Partner ‘shouts’ at child, without raising voice

[Orangepen13]

Looking for some thoughts

My partner is a secondary school teacher, and an authoritative one at that (think the ones that always picked up uniform). As long as we’ve been together, I have taken issue with him talking to me like a pupil. It’s like this, it’s never quite yelling but it’s aggressive, directive and at times patronising. I often respond “don’t shout at me” he responds “I wasn’t shouting, I didn’t raise my voice” (and continues to use the same tone of voice as he tells me off for telling him what to do). I understand part of the problem is my use of the word “shouting” which is not technically correct.

Anyway, we now have a 2yo and he speaks to her the same at times. This morning at breakfast, she was struggling that we were having a convo and pushed his hand. He pushed her hand back and said “don’t push, you’re being mean, you’ve made daddy sad” but in that shouting-not-shouting aggressive tone. Same argument ensues. I just find it so disrespectful and refuse for me or dd to be treated as if some kids at school who haven’t followed the rules. I know she needs boundaries, but I still feel she deserves respect and don’t think aggressive tone is needed.

First, any other partners (particularly of teachers) relate?
Second, am I being over sensitive as he’s not shouting? Is this just a valid way of being boundaried?
Third, help?! This has been years now and I have no idea how to describe to him the impact his tone has, or that we’re not at school!

Sounds OK to me. I don't see a problem. He's her parent too.

So what to you want him to do? It sounds like he's speaking firmly to her. A small child needs boundaries and he's not shouting at her.

I don’t understand why the first time he did that to you, you didn’t walk.

Nor why you didn’t walk any of the other many times.

I’ve been with DH for 20 years. He’s never spoken to me like that.

What do you mean he tells me off for telling him what to do? Re parenting? Do you have different styles?

He isn't shouting. If he is patronising or talking to you like a child the that is a annoying.

Talking to a 2 year old like that when they are doing something wrong is fine. What would you want him to say in the hand pushing situation? I think talking in a firmer tone helps convey the message better than "oh no sweetie, no pushing please" in a sing song voice. (Not saying that is what you are suggesting just the other end of the scale).

Next time he talks to you that way how about ‘I’m not a pupil, don’t use your teacher voice’

With your daughter I’m actually more worried by the words. It sounds like he wasn’t sad he was annoyed. But he’s trying to guilt her into thinking she IS mean and making him sad; rather than the truth that she just DID something that annoyed him

Hmm. I'm struggling to see the problem if he's not actually shouting or being threatening.. children need boundaries.
Are you more of a gentle parent OP?

Yes, I’m definitely more of a gentle parent - but that doesn’t mean sing-song. I’m still firm when I need to be, but I don’t believe I’m being aggressive. I think we do have different styles, though I thought we were on the same page (for context, I’m a psychologist - make of that what you will!)

I guess the responses to this are part of the issue, different people have different thresholds of what feels acceptable perhaps. He doesn’t raise his voice, but it’s still the same aggressive tone if that makes sense, and for me I find that very difficult. Perhaps that’s my issue to work on. I sometimes feel he has a warped sense of authority because of his job, but again that might just be different styles rather than him being punitive.

it’s useful to sense check!

If he speaks to you like he's speaking to a naughty pupil, could you try saying something like 'Don't fucking talk to me like you're my teacher, I'm an adult not one of your pupils'.

I think you need to make it clear to him this is destroying the relationship.

He sounds like he has a power complex.

And yes, some teachers do this outside work. They are dickheads. They never do it to senior leadership though.

@lucasnorth this is my view, but this is where we differ in style and he doesn’t like it when I’ve raised this in the past. Which I understand, no one likes to be questioned. But I’ve never worked out the right way of working with our differences

Pulling at his hand for attention is not ‘mean’ and it doesn’t make him ‘sad’. This is emotional manipulation 101. Does he also say he is going to cry if she doesn’t kiss him hello/goodbye and make a sad face?
He sounds like your average bully to me.

"You made daddy sad" is the issue here. Children should not be made responsible for adult's moods.

Perhaps that’s my issue to work on. I sometimes feel he has a warped sense of authority because of his job, but again that might just be different styles rather than him being punitive.
This is not meant snarkily but in the same vein, are you over analysing because of your job?

The example with your 2yr old sounds fine in isolation- he explained how it made him feel etc- but I very much get it. My DF was similar growing up. Retired headteacher!

Have you had a conversation outside of when he's behaving like this with you or DD, so on neutral territory? So, acknowledging that he has to show a lot of authority at work and that is fine but it isn't fine at home to treat you like a school kid.

Be clear that when you say 'shout', you may not have been clear previously. Ok, he wasn't raising his voice but you definitely mean that his tone has been inappropriate at home. Give examples.

Yes, DD needs boundaries and it's great he's instilling them but she's a little child not a rowdy 3rd year. He needs to give her a chance to grow in a positive and nurturing environment not be shot down for every tiny thing. This won't have the desired effect and is causing everyone stress.

He needs to learn to differentiate between his manner and level of scrutiny at school and home both with you and DD.

Ask how he intends to do this. Don't make it optional. Be very firm and collected.

My dad is a good if flawed man but this approach didn't allow him to have any fun or emotional openness with us as we grew up as of course the older we got the more minor infractions there were to crack down on. It just wasn't possible to be a strict teacher and a warm dad at once. To be honest, I think he got stuck in the role of 'sir' at all times and made life a bit miserable for himself. Your DH has chance to pull it back now with you and DD.

If he refuses to engage in this understanding approach then don't let up. You don't deserve to be patronised and spoken to like a naughty child and if he can't see it that's an issue. I would try this approach then suggest counselling then if he refuses to change I would look at whether I wanted to be in such a relationship at all. I'd be quite open about this.

DH needs to find a healthy separation between home and work
We all do.

This!

Teacher here. Yes, some teachers do have trouble switching out of teacher mode. It's annoying! I'd definitely call him out on it when he speaks to you like that. It's a bit different when he's talking to your dd. What would bother me about your example of that is that it's emotional manipulation/blackmail and poor parenting imo. It's also not an approach that any decent or sensible teacher would use either. Making a small child feel that their behaviour is responsible for your emotions as an adult is inappropriate and unhelpful.

The few times that I want to absolutely throttle my other half is when he uses his condescend "we are having a teaching moment voice". He does the I'm not shouting thing too. I think it is worse than shouting. It makes me feel so belittled. He never does it with my daughter and it probably happens every 3 or 4 years with me when he is having difficult time at work. It doesn't excuse it but I understand that he's emotionally strung out and this is how he shows it. I call him out on it and if it was to become more than once in a blue moon it would be quickly made known that it was unacceptable

We were at a wedding a couple of summers ago with a police officer and he spoke to his daughter the same way the police talk to 14 year old they have pulled over for driving a stolen car on traffic cops or similar shows

I would be coming up a line letting him know that this is home and he leave work at work. "Do you want to step outside and leave the teacher voice at door. It will be waiting for you in the morning. In here you are daddy and partner" or something like that.

Oh my H used to do this (dead now so exh 🤔) he was a teacher and used the passive aggressive /patronising tone with me often. I would say ‘don’t shout at me’ ‘I’m not shouting, I haven’t raised my voice to you, I’m just being clear’ shudder. I would never be with a teacher again

Sounds like he is just parenting you 2 year old, if you're unhappy with the way he talks to you though raise it

Sounds like a typical bully. “Made daddy sad” - because a toddler touched his hand?! Posters defending it saying it’s “parenting”? WTAF? It’s arsehole behaviour. Call him out and mean it OP.

I accidentally did this when first married, but noticed myself and stopped.

When you point it out, be accurate but lighthearted- who made you boss? Have you forgotten we’re at home again? Home voice, not school voice, please.

And nip that emotional blackmail in the bud now.
Being authoritative with her is ok. Not guilt trips.

This.

Also if my 2 year old were struggling whilst I was engaged in a conversation and pushed my hand I would hold/stroke their hand to offer reassurance, they don't have masses of waiting ability at 2 and you won't teach them much by ignoring them. Make them feel safe and secure and they will learn patience along the way.

I could not be in a relationship where my child was being manipulated and made to feel they had done something wrong for what is essentially normal toddler behaviour.

He sounds like he gets off being an utter control freak and the way he does it so calmly and measured so you cannot accuse him of shouting is actually terrifying.

To be clear, she pushed his hand away because she was frustrated, and I know this is a real rejection for him. IMO, he’s not a bad parent, but I take issue with the way he speaks to us sometimes and there’s a definite difference in our styles (I very much agree with the posters about owning our own feelings - we’re all working on this!)

I feel very seen by the people with teacher experience - thank you! It’s so hard to describe tone, but you’ve all made me feel like I’m not alone!

and yes, 100% guilty of being a psychologist at home, too!

I think maybe we need to have a calm discussion about our styles now that we’ve reached the 2yo stage, where we can both lay our thoughts out (although I suspect we will both believe we are right so compromise might be due somewhere 🥴)

she pushed his hand away because she was frustrated, and I know this is a real rejection for him.

Oh get a grip he is a grown arsed man