School handling of "racist incident"

[Valentinaz]

My DS is 7 years old. I got a phone call from school Friday evening saying that he has been involved in a "racist incident". I was obviously massively shocked and concerned as my son isn't even really aware of racism at his age, he has Kenyan cousins and has been around minority groups all of his life. I couldn't imagine what had happened so I phoned for a conversation to gather the facts.

On speaking with the head teacher she has stated that a child of a minority group has walked into the boys toilets and my son has said that they shouldn't be in there as its the boys toilets and they are a girl. (the child had long hair in a bun) On speaking to him he genuinely mistook the child for a girl and he has said he was confused and was only trying to do the "right thing" by telling the child this was the boys toilets.

At the same time, he was supposedly having a conversation with a friend in the toilets about animals and has talked about monkeys and how they don't belong in zoos they belong in the wild. He was speaking to another child who is his friend completely unrelated to the previous conversation. I'd like to just make it clear that my son doesn't know how the word monkey relates in any way to disgusting racist remarks. He has no idea how the word connects in any way. He still doesn't. Im not even sure if this is what really happened as it sounds so unbelievable.

Aparrently another child has overheard the conversation and has told a teacher about this, my son has now been punished and the school have stated they are doing a report on the incident as it was racist.

I feel absoloutly mortified by the whole situation. There were no adults present during any of this, this is all based on what the other two children present have told the head teacher. My son still, even after trying to explain to him, doesn't really understand what he has been punished for, he says he was only trying to tell the child it was the boys toilets.

On speaking to the school I've been told that they've already made the decision and a report will go on file about it and it's not my decision wether it's reported in this way. I feel this could have been handled by a simple conversation with my son about how we don't comment on others appearances and to explain how it could have hurt someone's feelings and an apology from him to the other child. Not a report which is sent to the govorners to say this was racist?

I feel so upset about this I've cried all Friday evening about the way it's been handled, I am livid that they are trying to say he has been racist.... Am I reading too much into it? Should I just let them get on with it or should I be taking some advice?

I'd like some thoughts from others on this if possible. I honestly feel like I don't want to send him to school tomorrow, I feel like they're trying to peg him as this awful child. There is no truth to this being in any way racially charged. This was a young child making a genuine mistake, he even now if asked will say he got into trouble for saying a boy was a girl..

I've tormented myself over this, what do I do? 😭

But he was. No one has said it was intentional. Why are you obsessed with the idea that it can only be racist if he meant it?

OP this is mumsnet. Whenever a hot button subject is discussed the assumption is immediate guilt. Read my post above and try and leave the emotion out of dealing with this with the school. You want to deal with facts and how they’ve followed policy.

Some of the responses on here are mad. These are seven year old children, they still believe in unicorns and Father Christmas and monsters under the bed.

I don't buy into "anti racism" or any critical race theory, it's bullshit to say all white people are by their nature racist. The history of oppression of different people by different people is far more complex than that.

OP, I would feel the same as you. You sound like a perfectly normal parent and your son sounds like a perfectly nice, normal 7 year old.

300 children isn't a huge school, so I'm struggling to see how a child in that setting could genuinely have not seen the other child around enough to have worked out that they use things associated with being a boy and therefore are probably a boy.

What "things associated with being a boy" are you referring to?

When I was 8 I asked a child with a disability that affected her legs/feet what size her shoes were. I was genuinely interested as she had feet of two different sizes and didn’t mean to be mean. But I got in loads of trouble! Shouted at for the first time by a teacher etc. It was a good lesson for me to think before I speak.

Sorry for putting the following so crudely, but intent has to matter. If you say a white person looks like a dog, you're just rude. But if you say a black person looks like a monkey, you're a racist.

On the face of it both name-calls are the same: you've compared a human being to an animal. The only real difference is the history and baggage attached to the latter. That's what makes the latter so much worse than the former.

We'll what if it's someone who has no clue about any history or baggage, say a seven year old kid? How would saying something like that make them racist? It's no mure rude than any other nasty comment about someone's personal appearance.

No, both incidents you describe are racist. That’s just a fact. The differences you are describing relate to intent, which leads to you ranking the incidents. The intent would affect how the aftermath of the racist incident is handled, but it wouldn’t change the fact that it was racist in the first place.

The fact is that we and my son are going to take lessons away from this. Of course we are. It's a harsh lesson learned.

But the incident had nothing to do with race. Wether it has been a child of a minority or a child who was white, if a child with long hair who perhaps looked a little feminine had walked into the toilet my son would likely have said you're a girl and you shouldn't be in here. Wrong of him to assume, yes, but likely the reaction of a lot of seven year old boys.

Because this child happened to be of a minority, it's been reported as being racially charged. Which I think is wrong. I think my child was unlucky that the other child was of Indian descent, if it had been another white child with long hair or hair in a bun. The issue would not have escalated in this way. It would have simply been brushed under the rug.

My son was not being racist. The comments was not racially charged.

I think that is really harsh. If you were just an 8 year old asking another 8 year old a question. If you were making fun of her then yes, fair enough. I'm a nurse in a nursing home, my dc come into work with me and if they ask a question, I answer it or the resident answers it if they are able. Simple education on disabilities and on how everyone is different.

Well, this is probably quite old-fashioned of me, but when I was at school, the general assumption would be that if a child was using the boys' toilets, or the boys' changing rooms, that they were probably a boy.

The hair incident might've been more believable if he hadn't said that monkeys belong in a zoo.

But why is it so hard to believe he was just talking about animals with his friends? He actually said he wasn't even talking about monkeys in the toilets, he was talking about them with his friend earlier. He's seven and has NO idea how the word monkey is racist at all. I know people are saying "oh it's a cooncidence" but it's possible isn't it? Chidren talk about all sorts of things? How it is deemed impossible that it was innocent?

Even if I ask him now. He thinks he's in trouble for calling a boy a girl. He is completely oblivious to how monkey is racist at all...

We’ll hang on, if we’re using the same yard stick then that was disablist no?

I believe that he could genuinely have thought this particular child was a girl. If they’re in a different key stage to him so he hasn’t spoken to the boy and didn’t know his name, plus they’ve never been in the toilet at the same time then it’s plausible that every time your son saw him around he just assumed he was a girl.

You’ve said he then commented on this boy’s hair though. So what did he say? Did he say “I’m sorry, I thought you were a girl because you have long hair”? Or was it more “Why have you got long hair if you’re a boy?” or even “it’s weird for boys to have long hair etc etc”. I am assuming it was something unpleasant which had caused the other boy to be upset, especially if his long hair is linked to his religion or culture.

@Scirocco 7 year olds don't typically have sexed changing rooms in primary schools. It's very possible that OP's son had not noticed this particular boy before, either in the toilets or anywhere else. He could be in a different year, he might have joined recently.

People seem to like making all sorts of shit up to try to pick holes in the OP's narrative, when really if you think someone is lying either move on with your day or say exactly that.

Ask the head the details

I am fairly sure you will find that the long hair is part of the child's ethnic/ cultural identity eg because they are Sikh and this is why it is a racist incident. Your son acted in a way that disadvantaged another person based on a protected characteristic.

No-one disbelieves you that your son did not intend to make a racist statement and just perceived the child as a girl you are merely being told that intent does not matter in the definition.

I know about the definitions etc because I am a former chair of governors

The fact that your son perceived a Sikh boy with long hair to be a girl is a gap in his knowledge of other cultures and could usefully be addressed rather than you pointlessly trying to prevent a statutory report being made when it has to be done.

My son has said that the child walked on whilst he was having a wee and he turned and thought they were a girl.

So he said "wait wait, you look like a girl, this is the boys toilets you shouldn't be in here"

Wrong of him to assume. Yes. Completely. But a genuine mistake.

@Valentinaz If your son is neurodiverse, then I think it's really important to make sure he has a good understanding of issues such as racism, in a supportive way.

He may be more vulnerable to misinformation and being used by other children and later adults as a conduit for their own prejudices (rather than risk getting into trouble themselves, get the somewhat more impulsive and socially naive kid to do it), as he may be more prone to seeing things in black and white and missing the nuances that end up getting him in trouble.

Why are you missing the point so spectacularly that intent is irrelevant?

So he said "wait wait, you look like a girl, this is the boys toilets you shouldn't be in here"

See that's where he's banged to rights isn't it?

"Wait wait, you look like a girl"

If he genuinely thought he was a girl he would've said "You're a girl", not "You look like one".

I do think you need to wise up OP, he's 7 and learning how to tease by the sound of it.

Seriously? Wow, I did not know things had changed that much. My very ordinary primary school had single sex changing rooms and toilets, as did every school my teacher relatives have ever worked in.

Well, I've learned something new to check when visiting potential schools for DC then! And a whole new reason to consider home ed...

I’ve never come across a single primary school with changing rooms, single sexed or otherwise!

Of COURSE intent is relevant. You only have to look at law in general to know intent is relevant.

If intent isn't relevant anyone can take any comment however they want to surely? There has to be some intent. The school bullying policy actually outlines bullying as being REPEATED and INTENDED, of which this is neither...

No one said your child was a bully.

Well this is depressing. Sorry your son had this OP.

In a few years he’ll be at secondary school and getting in trouble for ‘hate incidents’ if he says a boy is a boy, if that boy has decided inside his head that he instead identifies with girls. Your son may find himself being forced to use mixed sex toilets too. So, although it is tragic, you’re going to have to teach him asap never to comment on the gender or appearance of others except in safe spaces ie at home.

I would absolutely meet the head and say that your son did not make a racist remark and that you are concerned and angry that the school is accepting the word of one child against another over an incident no adults saw. However it sounds like the school does not care.

At my school the word ‘racist’ was frequently weaponised, and if a non-white child wanted to bully a white child (or white teacher) they would accuse them of racism. It happened many times, the shout from the back of the class “Miss that’s well racist!” came many times each day followed by laughter from the person who said it. I’m not saying that bullying/lying is what happened here, just that it is something I personally have seen many times. I even got in trouble for inviting a close school friend to a church party, because it was apparently ‘racist’ I hadn’t instead invited a black girl in my year who I hardly knew. The black girl had no problem with me but some bullies thought it would be a fun rumour to start and it caused problems for a while.

You could also ask the school if it is their position that white children are not allowed to discuss monkeys at school but non-white children are, because if so that is a racist position by the school.

It does sound like the school are handling this badly, I hope your meeting goes ok.