I think if people knew the mad, bonkers roots of strict routine-based parenting they would run a mile instead of buying more books about it.

[pruners]

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history - was for my dissertation.

I was studying how gender roles were taught to children, basically using child rearing guides and educational works as primary sources.

Is a very interesting subject.

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That sounds fascinating. Always knew those baby rearing books were bollocks, this just vindicates my pathological hatred of Gina Ford.
Though it doesn't help the fact that I feel horribly guilty about making my babies sleep in their own beds... But then it's only us in the Western world that try to so much - child rearing, careers, decorating a house...

Sounds like a very interesting book, but between reading interesting books and reading mumsnet I get v little housework done, house is resembling midden at the moment. incidentally, I weakened and attempted to follow a Gina Ford type regime with my second child as I was panicking about coping with new baby and clingy two year old, DS2 co-operated beautifully but subsequently turned out to out to have aspergers and therefore liked a routine and was spookily happy on his own. I now wish I had carted him around all the time like DS1 and DS3, it probably wouldn't have made any diff' tho' but i do feel guilty about it now.

Not sure that I see my love of routine (and then there is something from which I can deviate if desired) as some kind of weird diktat from men long ago... I love my routine and it holds our house together when trying to please 2 adults and 3 children with different places to be etc.

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I don't know anyone who raises their kids according to a particular philosophy.
They all just make it up as they go along.

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Oh come on ladies, we're just resurrecting the tired old arguments again.
Some of us like routine, some don't. Plus ca change.

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I think the point is not to be against routines, just don't do anything that goes against your natural instincts. We did the whole (whassername who did the Baby Whisperer) routine with ds, and while it worked to get him, well, into a routine, not being able to meet up with mates pissed me off.
You'll like though... My friend's sister-in-law produced a PowerPoint presentation on Gina Ford's routine for her husband just before their second baby came along.
Definitely interesting to see where all those madcap childcare theories come from... Do you not think that they succeed in catching us (some of us) when we're feeling unsure of ourselves? They definitely made me feel guilty and inadequate and I tortured myself to follow them for a few weeks, and then tortured myself because I abandoned them and my ds didn't sleep through.

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I did a Certain Routine with dd1, mainly as I was bored on maternity leave and needed a Project

but this was from 4 months on and she was already kind of routiney anyway

she has always been a great sleeper

with dd2, hahahahahahahaha, I tried to do the Certain Routine from the start and dh threatened to divorce "if I read any more of that shit" (I have a post somewhere on here saying this), so she was not in a routine

dd2 has always been a crap sleeper

coincidence? no idea

actually, I am not sure you are right, pruni, because some people do think - deep down - that babies are just waiting to get the better of ther parents, they are manipulative and you have to show them whose boss straight away otherwise you make a rod for your own back etc etc.
the routines are about controlling your baby, and lots of people think that babies need to be controlled.
so I think people might not be overly shocked at the origins

at edinburgh libraries again

off to amazon

yes, Harpsi, like people asking if your 2 week old is 'good'

wtf is that about? they don't know how to be 'good' they have just arrived!!!

I'm not a great routine user (too disorganised) but I do get a bit with all the stuff about how we in the West are so backward and unlike the rest of the world in how we raise our babies.

Personally, I'm quite glad I don't have to carry my baby on my back all the time because I have to work every single day of the week, 14 hours a day and can't afford to leave her with anyone so she can learn and play in a safe environment. I'm also glad I don't sleep in the same room as her - in lots of these cultures people have to live, eat and sleep in one room and I'm glad I don't have to do that.

It's actually quite nice living in the developed world, I find. One of the nice things about it is it gives you choices about what path you want to take.

Like I say, no routines in my house particularly but happy for anyone who finds them useful.

yes but margo the point about the stuff you go about is not that it is best for you, but that the argument/observation it is best (or better) for the child to have physical contact, because it makes them feel more secure and is better for their development.
obviously you have a choice to make, but that is a bit beside the point, isn't it?

well, tbh, unless I'm happy, she won't be happy. And she is quite happy.

In fact I tried co sleeping and we both hated it. Sometimes even now if she wakes up in the night I take her in with me and she wriggles and hits until I take her back to her own room.

Different babies, you know.

oh yes I appreciate that co-sleeping doesn't suit some babies.
but that isn't the same as dismissing all observations/research about what is best for most babies, and what works best in terms of their development.

btw I do think the story that unless mum is happy, baby can't be happy is quite a lot of nonsense.
there are plenty mothers with PND who are far from happy, but their babies are perfectly happy.
a baby's needs and "happiness" are very simple really and can't really be compared with an adult's imo

I have never been able to leave either of mine to cry

ever

even controlled crying (whatever that is)

with dd1 she would cry for a minute in a "oh I am so tired and cross" manner and go to sleep

dd2 would cry in a "I will go on in this vein for an hour so pick me up" manner

you will know yourself what to do without a book imo