3 year old takes two hours to go to bed - at wits end

[Monkeyportrait]

Hello there. I know there are several threads of this nature but please forgive me starting another, as I'm at my wits' end. Our DD is 3.5 and for six months has refused to stay in bed at bedtime, coming downstairs, first cheery then getting progressively more and more hysterical if I don't lie on her bed with her to get her to sleep - a process which itself takes 1.45 hours as she is so hyper and just wants to play. I feel her getting wound up and playful then anxious at bedtime - its like her body changes.

Because lying on the bed to get her to sleep takes SO long we have decided after six months to try and get her back to where she used to be, ie going to sleep when we leave the room and pop in a couple of times (she did this solidly for about a year). I don't know where it all went wrong but I presume it was just a developmental change.

It's causing so much stress in the house. We don't get to eat dinner any more as one of us is always going up and down stairs. We fight about it and go to bed in a bad mood. We are exhausted and have no time to ourselves at all. We can't go out for dinner ever now, because we wouldn't be able to leave the house till 9pm.

She only wants me - because I do the lying on the bed - and DP and me are fighting like mad because he says my approach has caused the problem in the first place.

We have tried audiobooks - she just listens to the end and wants another. We have tried books - she reads them and then comes down to see us. We have tried changing bedtimes around - she takes two hours from whenever we start.

Life has just receded into the distance to be honest! Any advice would be beyond appreciated.

That's quite a lot of TV for a little one in the evening and I find that screens don't really tire out their brains ready for sleep in the way that playing / interaction does.

I'd cut out the TV time and instead either do some kind of physical activity after tea (mine used to love a walk round the block or up to the field at the end of the road to look at a cow or something). Or use that time to really have solid focused activity with just you and her - playing on the floor with her any game she wants, or doing a little jigsaw together, or drawing things and talking together about what you're drawing. Or get in the bath with her and play with water cups together. Its that kind of one on one focus from an adult that I think really tires their minds out, and it gives her that closeness and undivided attention that she's craving in the evenings.

@HappyMeal564 oh I still do the majority! Little one is now almost 2 and I do more bedtimes :)

It will get better. I have a wonderful little boy but we go through peaks and troughs of this. He can be great for months then we can have six weeks of hell. My experience is as follows;

Make sure bedtime is appropriate and specifically sleep time, for example it takes my son an hour from pjs on, to brush teeth and stories to the point where he is ready to go to sleep. We start bedtime at 630 for a 730 sleep. We noticed that if we start later he is over tired, gets silly, falls asleep late and then the cycle begins. Also it means if we have a rubbish bedtime and it’s 2hrs we still get something of an evening. He’s four now, I think when he was 3 we started at 615!

We don’t give him an inch, not ever. We do a lovely routine, he gets time, cuddles and hugs but once I have said goodnight it sleeptime then any further communication is minimal. The only thing I nudge for Is the toilet. We ignore all other requests. Litterally we will sit there in the room with eyes down not responding, if he gets out we put him back with no words. It’s super nannyesque and we have found that it does work.

If we let him, he will want mummy when daddy does bedtime and vis versa - whoever starts finishes and we alternate. This is of course unless one starts to get irritated (he can be really challenging) then we switch so as to not let our emotions feed his behaviour.

We have an agreed method, we don’t lie with him but we sit on the other side of the room. Once he’s in a good rhythm we start to leave him and check in etc, but about twice a year we need to revisit the pro-forma.

We eat dinner early and as a family, it means that we are not hungry and trying to do this - which in our house would not be a good thing! We alternate as we each need a break when he is at his worst I.e 2hrs as that’s unsustainable for one person to do that each night for our family.

Sorry this is such a pain for you but you are nowhere near alone!

I have a not yet 3yr old, she hasn’t napped in about a year. She was a 9.30pm to 9.30am sleeper. Started preschool 3 weeks ago and still doesn’t nap, goes to bed at 9pm and gets awoken at 8am now. She obviously doesn’t need the sleep as she’s not ratty or cranky, however she conks out when she goes to bed. Maybe you have one like that

My eldest was like this. It didn't really stop until she started school- luckily she is young in the year so went into reception at 4.1. She didn't sleep through until she started school either. She just needed (and still needs) a lot of mental stimulation and not much sleep. It's better now she's older as she reads half the night on her kindle, but it was tough before she could read and keep herself entertained while not needing much sleep.

We were here a few weeks ago with a very poor sleeper, also 3.5 and at nursery ft, no naps. Hysterics at bedtime, would take two hrs etc, exhausted next morning. This is what we did - not prescriptive, all children different etc caveats!
I am the tough parent who is unswayed by crying so I took over bed time entirely. First night was horrific. 2 hrs of wailing, 3 bids for freedom (I was post-op which was why bedtimes had gone to pot with soft daddy in charge.)
Bath time finished at 6.45, into pjs, story with mummy, milk and story with daddy, then into bed. I stayed with her while she settled and wailed and screamed for daddy and tried to escape, then coached my husband through putting her back into bed. Lots of “I know you’re sad, you want daddy etc”. Second night much of the same but only half an hour. Third night, again, but only 15 mins. First job was breaking the daddy dependence so that was why I stayed - that was harder than getting her to fall asleep alone. Then shifted to a big bribe - you stay in bed, you get a sticker book in the morning. Combined that with mummy is going for a wee I will be back in one minute - which I was. Lots of praise and reassurance (the trick was to get back before her limit of being able to stay alone) Lather rinse repeat. Took an hour but she fell asleep in her bed. Next night…another bribe…went from one minute to two minutes alone. (Maybe adjust depending on her tolerance.) gradually worked up the tim, so first tuck in is one minute, second tuck in is two minutes. Third tuck is is 3 minutes etc. Only took a week or so and she was falling asleep alone after 5 mins instead of two hours of snuggles. Hope that helps!

I would try an earlier bedtime, even just 6:45 actually in bed at 6:45 after teeth, book etc and ready to say “goodnight, love you I will come back to check on you in 2 mins. You must stay in bed and we can put a sticker on your chart in the morning. Close your eyes cuddle teddy”
My daughter (nearly 4) goes to bed at 8 & straight to sleep but if she goes to bed at 8:15 chances are she is still up at 9

Thanks again everyone! I am literally trying a combination of many of the things on here - last night I felt like a bit of a rat saying that if she didn't remain in her bed (ie not keep coming down) we wouldn't go swimming today, but it did seem to work. I might try the sticker book suggestion tonight as it feels more positive than denying something.

We took her up at 7.30 rather than 7pm and she was asleep by ten to 9. So 1.20 mins of process rather than two hours. But I didn't lie on the bed at all. She has a new trick of saying she needs a poo very late into the process which is annoying because it's not something you can really argue with - even when the evidence is there is no poo, when you take her downstairs!

I'm not convinced we helped anything by taking her up later - just saved our legs a bit. I think we would be totally fine with 8.30 if we can possibly get it to that. I wouldn't be averse to lying with her at all if it didn't come as part of a two hour process, so I think it just has to change.

I think the crux of it as many people have pointed out is minimising this dependence on me. The other day she said "daddy's the bad guy" which just isn't true! So I've obviously put myself in this super soft role which he compensates for by being tougher, and that's making it all worse.

Continuing to read your messages and experimenting - accepting it might be a long road...

Just to say, mine has a will of iron so when
you figure out what levers you need to pull it will probably still happen quite quickly. It’s just how to figure out what those levers are for a particular child. Ours was feeling heard about how much she wanted daddy but still having to accept that that wasn’t happening, and making staying in bed worthwhile. Good luck!

@Monkeyportrait
Not wanting to add too much to what you've got already, but I have one tip.

My daughter was very similar and it was hard work. She also didn't seem to find the usual calm-dow routines helpful and would be constantly calling out, getting up, wanting to read or play. But then my older one (who has no problem sleeping) wanted to listen to a Cosmic Kids mindfulness track instead of an audiobook one night (I think he knew them from school...)

They are on YouTube (put in Cosmic Kids Peace Out and you'll find them) but sound only, so no screen. I think you can download them all though I never did. And they worked like magic. Dim room, lying in bed, one Peace Out track, sleepy girl, much improved going-to-sleep time.

I'm not much for meditation and wouldn't have picked it to try but for a long time it was a godsend. The tracks are pretty corny but harmless (much imagining being in a field of flowers or patting a fluffy bunny) and age appropriate, and there are enough that repetition is soothing rather than boring (if you're a preschooler). There are probably more similar things out there by now. By the time the kids got tired of them - it was well over a year - daughter could read and was happier to stay in bed.

We also have the poo trick…I just say well you have your nappy on, if the poo comes out of your bottom I can change it. I know fine she doesn’t need one and it’s just a delaying tactic so it’s never actually an issue!

@Wanttobekind - but my Ds is potty trained, so he doesn’t wear a nappy. So poop delay tactic also happens here

This happened with my daughter, had always slept well, then suddenly not. Years later we discovered she is autistic and has ADHD. Worth bearing in mind. Autism in girls is different and very under diagnosed.

On top of the other suggestions something else that helped my DD when she started doing this was her tonies box. She can pick her stories, easily play them and she'll lay and listen to them till she falls asleep.

I tried this originally because I asked why she kept asking for me to go in her room and basically she was bored and struggling to settle herself. The stories help and she can just play another when it ends without needing to shout for me to help her. Although I'd personally go for a Yoto if I could choose next time, the stories are cheaper. Although the figures you use for Tonies box are really cool.

Sometimes I wonder how this mythical put down leave room works. My 8 year old got in the bath at 7:30 (hair wash and dry) and is just dropping off. I still lie with her because I can't stand the crying, begging, calling out, getting up, whining and whinging. If I know she's asleep and won't wake up, its easier having a block of 2 hours before I go to bed than no time because I'm constantly returning to bed. DD gets inconsoleable. We have some SEN and sleep is not something that happens for long as she'll be up at 6:30.

I figure I won't be browsing mn in the dark when she's 12, I have a hard enough life without a bedtime battle, I got her a double bed so I'm not squashed and DD has now finally been trained to get up and help herself to breakfast, she comes to me or I come to her at 7am. Works fine for now.

My little girl is the same she falls asleep on the sofa at about 730pm with me sitting with her and an hour later I carry her upstairs to her bed.
Daddy rarely does the routine as she just plays him up.
In the middle of the night she will get in bed with us,sometimes daddy is kicked out to the spare room depending on how hot it is with 3 in a bed.
It used to drive me crazy and I longed for a good bedtime routine but iv come to accept it will righten itself in the end.
It maybe easier for us as she is an only child as my older two are in their 20s and moved out ages ago.
I am often told to get a gate and implement a good bed time routine but the thought of causing distress doesn't sit right and in all honesty we both work and I don't have the patience to put these things into practice.
She will be our last baby and I often read the positive things about Co sleeping.the Japanese have a name for this and highlight the aspects.
One day she won't want to sleep with me and maybe I will miss it.
Parenting is hard at times and there is not a right way I guess its doing what is right for you as a family .it is nice to know there are others in the same situation.

We had similar, DD is nearly 4 and we spent over a year lying on her bedroom floor in silence while she fell asleep. She would just cry if we walked out the room. Older DD was totally fine so we were stumped.

Tried a few different strategies (slowly edging out the room didn’t do it) and by fluke found one that worked in a book I was reading on something else.

Usual routine, bath, stories and into bed. I would then tell her that I had to go and do something (wash the dishes, tidy, clean the bathroom), and that I would come back and check on her in 5 minutes but she must stay in bed. I would go back and check on her after 5 minutes and reiterate that I still had more dishes to wash but that I’d come back again in 10 minutes. At first she would ask questions to confirm, but now she isn’t bothered at all. Within about a week, by the time I came back to check the first time (15 mins maybe) she was already asleep. She seemed to respond to knowing what I was going to do and could (perhaps) picture it herself, and possibly helped her knowing I was still in the house.

She will still try her luck on the nights she isn’t tired, and come for a wander but I just walk her straight back, and it’s more her chancing it than being distressed. Bed time is around 7.30 for us.

Thank you again everyone. It's really comforting to know other people are goign through the same thing. Tonight I have to work so DH is doing it and I'm locked in my room. I can hear endless thundering up and down the stairs. It's nearly nine.

Yes we do that thing where we tell her what we are going away to do - it sometimes works. I think meditations or longer stories might be something we try. Last night we realised we are still being too vague and loose with our new attempts to change the habits and I think it's because we are too tired.

I'm doing it by myself tomorrow so lets see how that goes...

I could have written this myself, in fact maybe I did, about 6 months ago. My girl is now 4 and we put her younger brother in with her for about a month (moved house so timed it with that). It worked. Having a playmate chilled her out so that she was playing still but in a much calmer manner, and when we asked them to get into bed around 8-8:30 she was much happier to do so, and would naturally fall asleep chatting to him. Poor boy though was so tired as wasn’t used to a later bedtime, so we’ve split them up again now. Dressed it up as him being ill and don’t want her to get sick as she’s starting school - they are under the impression that they will go back in together but they’ll forget about that pretty soon.

Now she’s still the tricky one to get to sleep each night, and it’s still a good hour of management, going up and down as she wants cuddles etc. But she’s much calmer and doesn’t insist on us being in with her to the same extent. Same as op she’s always been this way, and seems to get wound up as bedtime approaches rather than calming down.

I don’t know if op has another child or a pet or something they could sacrifice for a month to give it a try?

Just think to yourself she won't do this when she is a teenager and you will probably want it back then!! , maybe let her get in bed with you she is probably scared of being on her own, she will grow out of it, iv never heard of a 14 year old being like this