3 year old takes two hours to go to bed - at wits end

[Monkeyportrait]

Hello there. I know there are several threads of this nature but please forgive me starting another, as I'm at my wits' end. Our DD is 3.5 and for six months has refused to stay in bed at bedtime, coming downstairs, first cheery then getting progressively more and more hysterical if I don't lie on her bed with her to get her to sleep - a process which itself takes 1.45 hours as she is so hyper and just wants to play. I feel her getting wound up and playful then anxious at bedtime - its like her body changes.

Because lying on the bed to get her to sleep takes SO long we have decided after six months to try and get her back to where she used to be, ie going to sleep when we leave the room and pop in a couple of times (she did this solidly for about a year). I don't know where it all went wrong but I presume it was just a developmental change.

It's causing so much stress in the house. We don't get to eat dinner any more as one of us is always going up and down stairs. We fight about it and go to bed in a bad mood. We are exhausted and have no time to ourselves at all. We can't go out for dinner ever now, because we wouldn't be able to leave the house till 9pm.

She only wants me - because I do the lying on the bed - and DP and me are fighting like mad because he says my approach has caused the problem in the first place.

We have tried audiobooks - she just listens to the end and wants another. We have tried books - she reads them and then comes down to see us. We have tried changing bedtimes around - she takes two hours from whenever we start.

Life has just receded into the distance to be honest! Any advice would be beyond appreciated.

Only thing that worked when my DD was doing this was a technique on the NHS website (which seems to have since disappeared, otherwise I would send link). Basically you kiss them good night, tell them you’re leaving the room but will be back in 2 secs to give them another kiss - and you do that. It’s really important you keep your promise through this! Then you leave the room again but for slightly longer this time - “I’ll be back to give you a kiss, just putting these clothes away.. etc etc” You have to be clear that you’ll be back as long as they stay in bed. First night doing it takes ages but I came into her room at 10.30pm and said “I’m off for a shower now, then I’ll be back” and she nodded “ok mummy” which I couldn’t believe - on previous nights it would’ve been crying, begging me not to leave her. By the time I came back she was asleep and subsequent nights were SO much easier, bedtimes just carried on improving. I think the logic is that they come to trust that you aren’t going anywhere and are still close to them? My friend recommended it to me and I was amazed how well and quickly it worked!

The thing is, when the new baby comes she will just have to have bedtime with daddy. My son was the same, always wanted me it honk I did it every single night for 2.5 years and he took forever to go down at that time.
There were times I just couldn't do his bedtime and after the first couple of nights of protest he just accepted that daddy now does bedtime sometimes.
Tonight DH got both our children to bed. I didn't know what to do with myself 🤣
Things will change naturally anyway.

I'd definitely not do any gates though. That just seems wrong to me.

No idea if this is helpful but she does sound similar to my 3yo daughter so maybe..

What works (mostly, and at the moment at least!) is

• not putting her to bed to early. Alarm on for 6.30am, so upstairs at 7.30pm aiming for sleep by 8/8.30pm and 10-10.5 hrs (this is all she needs)

• bed time story books downstairs before bed (she finds books in bed too stimulating)

• then upstairs, watches a video on my phone while brushing teeth, then straight into a dim bedroom and she watches another video (usually a "super simple song") on my phone (controversial I know!) while sitting in bed before lights go out completely

• I lie with her to go to sleep but it (usually!) doesn't take too long

I know this goes completely against lots of advice but it's the best routine we've tried (and we've tried a lot!). Really hope that posting about it doesn't jinx it!!!

Oh, and we do have gates. I understand why it seems wrong, and it did to me too, but she went through a stage of running out of the bedroom and causing havoc and gates have helped so much. I do like with her to sleep so it's not like I'm locking her away from me, just stopping her escaping 😬

*lie with her

You say you lie down and chat with her, I’d stop that straight away. Tell her tonight that you won’t be chatting. Once you’ve done stories etc, say goodnight etc and say there’s no more talking as it’s sleep time. She may well get bored more quickly and drop off.

It sounds like she might need more mental stimulation in the day? My DD is less extreme than this and older but similar in character - and starting school is really helping. She used to have really long days at nursery but they clearly weren’t mentally taxing enough to tire her out. Now even though it is shorter days all the learning at school is making a difference. Her brain needs to shut down to process it. It’s great.

My Ds is the same. He just doesn’t need much sleep. He usually sleeps around 9pm-6am.

The concept of ‘waking them at 7.30am so they are tired’ is laughable as he’s never slept that late in his life.

If we leave him or shut him behind a gate he just hold his breath and passes out or vomits. All within about 3 mins of being left.

If it helps, I now just let him fall asleep in our bed and dh moves him after. Before we started bed at 8-8.30pm and he would take until 10 or later to fall asleep even with us in his room. Drove me bonkers as it was 2hrs every night ( for both dh or I).

Now we read in his room, say goodnight in his bed and maybe 1 day in 7 he will fall asleep there. The other 6 he comes into our bed at around 8.30pm, and falls asleep within 15 mins usually. It’s not perfect but it’s far more relaxing for us all

I was going to suggest this. It still works now, I'll just say I'll be back in ten mins after I've had a shower or tidied up, every time he's already asleep by the time I go back up (he's now 5). Started it when he was 3 and it really worked. I do sometimes sit on his bed for a few mins but no more than ten mins and the condition of that is he has to be lying down trying to sleep not messing around sitting up talking.

Thank you so much everyone. I'm just digesting this huge amount of help and really appreciate it. We do the above method (back every two mins) generally - thank you - but she has taken to ignoring the "I'll be back in a minute" and getting out of bed and following us.

Part of me wants to just accept that she's a late-night baby but then when I see her ratty and grey in the morning and lying on the carpet refusing to get dressed for nursery I can't quite believe that 10 hours is enough for her. Yet maybe it is.

I think a gate would make her really angry and razz her up more, although I fantasise about the idea of it - or of just being able to lock the door! I have no problem her playing in there quietly.

Yes maybe we need to start having dinner all together. The frustrating thing is that the process takes so long from whenever you start it. I don't like seeing her change from happy and chatty to distressed and clingy which is why I compensate by lying in there for 1.5 hours - but it's clearly not working.

Does anyone have any idea how long this phase lasts? Someone told me it's different when they're at school as they are so tired by the routine? She's been in it for most of this year, and turned 3 in Feb.

What time do you stop screens?

She is old enough for a reward chart and / or consequences - sorry I can't take you to the park today because I spent so long with you last night I didn't get my jobs done.

(Though maybe not the park as fresh air and exercise will help her sleep.)

I'd start bedtime earlier.

She usually watches TV from about 5.30-6.15 so she's stopping about 45 mins before bed, not sure if that's too soon? yes part of me feels like starting bedtime even sooner would help - just so unsure!

Floorwipes - just saw your post about school tiring your child out more. Yes I wonder about that. Her nursery days are mainly play.

Are you giving her enough physical activity?
At her age she could walk/scoot to nursery.
She could start ballet, swimming or gymnastics.
Instead of screen time send her into the garden to play. Invest in a climbing frame.
I’ve had two children who need vast amounts of exercise to sleep and I’m not afraid to say I exercise them much like I would a dog. 3 walks a day plus activities.

Apologies, not read all the comments but I would suggest early bedtime if you can. On the days I have my 3 year old, I put them down about 5:30 because there are no naps and they’re exhausted. The earlier they go to bed, the better they sleep I find. If I’m doing bedtime on a nursery day it’s later but I don’t allow too much playing before it’s bedtime wind down time. I know others will say they want some time with their kids in the early evening but I found the grumpiness wasn’t worth it 😂

Plenty of us have been there. Just keep putting her to bed at 7 and taking her straight back if she reappears. It's critical to repeat for 2-3 weeks if you have to. Do not talk or chat as you're doing it, unless perhaps you just say "it's bedtime now". I think it'll be tough, but it does work. We did this after the new baby, not before, stupidly, and we practically needed roller skates to dash between them.

I have 4 children and honestly there is no one size fits all.
It is not your parenting, it’s just a case of adjusting (and probably so for a few developmental stages yet).

2 of mine sleep great, 2 have always struggled (one who is 3 also so I completely understand how exhausting and often annoying it can feel when you just want an hour to watch TV and eat the bag of chocolates to yourself!)

With my first I was anxious, I was probably overly strict on the routine (for them) and things only improved when we relaxed, I’ve learned a few things since those days :-

If you could try to just hit the restart button, relax about the whole situation just let it go and enjoy the extra cuddles whilst it’s just the one. She could be picking up on your anxiety over this too.

We have always eaten together since highchair days with all children and it’s a nice opportunity to wind down and make everyone feel settled (she may be feeling she’s missing out on this).

repeatedly returning to bed can be quite unsettling for some “high maintenance” children. My child suffered night terrors when we were trying to enforce this and once we changed our tactics the night terrors stopped. I would much rather adjust my needs and have a happy settled child. (For those that have successfully done it, great that it’s worked for you, It worked for 2 of my children but honestly it does NOT work for all children).

We started by jumping in bed for a cuddle and a made up story, lights out (no images to look at and a nice quiet calm voice, slowly getting quieter) if you have to stroke their hair and shhh etc then give it a go. Then as another poster said say Mummy’s just going to toilet, or small things that can be done upstairs. We then progressed to Mummy’s just having a bath I’ll be back in a minute (and I did, a hot relaxing bath with the doors open so they knew I was there (no lights just candles) most occasions they were asleep after half an hour and I’d had a relaxing bath (your partner can be clearing up tea) everyone’s happy!

Not yet able to do this with my other high maintenance child (and yours sounds similar), still found myself getting stressed but just have to have a talk with myself. At present we do baths quite early because they get past it (6.30pm) DH brings them down whilst youngest is settled because the commotion is too noisy up there. We have a cuddle on the settee and watch TV for an hour ish with some warm milk (not Children's TV as too stimulating but they just love the fact they’re “allowed” to watch instead of bed) by 8ish they’re now asking to go to bed. It’s working for us and they may not be as “good” at sleeping as the other two but I’d say give it a go, it may still be 1-2 hours of your time, but it’s happy family time rather than everyone getting stressed, and let’s face it they WILL be a day when she doesn’t want you and you miss every bit of what you have now!

I agree with this. Some PPs suggesting 10pm as a bedtime - that seems way way too late for me, it certainly is a lot later than recommended!

My son has to go to bed really pretty early (he’s a couple of months off four) or he gets really overtired and wired and can’t sleep at all. We go up at 6.30 for lights out about 7. I’ve tried pushing it back (as he does wake quite early) but that just ends up as a nightmare with him exhausted but wired and yes then we’ve missed the window until 9/10 (and he will then wake up even earlier!)

There are sleep windows/rhythms that you need to catch so I would try going for a little earlier - it’s worth a go anyway!

Haven’t read all the replies but I lie with my 2 year old, i read one story then that’s it, no more talking, I will mostly turn over and pretend to go to sleep, he sometimes keeps talking and all I will say is ‘it’s time to shut our eyes.’ And ‘no more talking.’ I’m not saying it works every night but it does work a lot.

I agree with this. Some PPs suggesting 10pm as a bedtime - that seems way way too late for me, it certainly is a lot later than recommended!

What recommendations where?

DD slept midnight till noon as a baby (so did I). The night before she started school at 3.10 she didn’t go to sleep till 10:30pm. Within a week it had come down naturally to 9:30pm and then 9pm. She didn’t have to be up till 8am so got plenty of sleep.

(We’ve both been diagnosed with ADHD recently. Struggles with sleeping early are well documented for those of us that aren’t NT. DD could no sooner have gone to sleep at 7pm as I could.)

@Laguera - 9/10pm isn’t late if they sleep max 9-10hrs. Ds usually goes 9pm-6am. Some days it’s 10pm and he still wakes 6am.
If he ever falls asleep in car at say 6-7pm, he’s awake for the day 9-10hrs later ie 3-4am
and ‘they’ the paediatrician actually said is very unusual to actually need 12hrs . Most 3 year olds are fine with 9-11hrs

What recommendations? You can look it up, there’s loads, the National Sleep Foundation here says 7.30 to 8.30 from 3-5 years old, some say 7-8, basically any child/sleep guidance organisation.

https://www.leesa.com/article/bedtime-by-age

Of course all kids are different and that’s great if that works for you - horses for courses and all - but 10 is unusually late for a three year old so just pointing that out to OP given a few PPs are holding that out as the solution and suggesting she’s going for way too early, whereas she’s actually pretty much in line with recommendations. I totally get that some people have issues falling asleep earlier - I myself have had insomnia issues on and off all my life - but it‘s easy to think that later is the obvious answer when it’s not necessarily.

Anyway, wasn’t meaning to offend anyone over their bedtime choices, each to their own!

Try ending removing screen time. The reason I say this is my 4 year old used it when he was tired as it kept him awake and it escalated any negative behaviour including bed time battles. It might not work for you but it's an option to consider

You may already do this, but a happy medium might be being in her room, but not lying on the floor, and being boring- say you've got work to do (even if it's just faffing on your phone) and sit in the corner, and don't talk to her. Then you provide the reassurance of being there, but not the reinforcement of it being fun (and you don't have to lie on the floor in the dark).

2 hours for wind down!! That's mad. Upstairs, pyjamas, bath if she has one, teeth, one or two books, say good night and leave. She can read on her own or listen to audiobooks, but must stay in her room/bed. Get a stairgate/shut the door.