Would you have a repeat playdate or not?

[Goldbar]

Interested in people's views on this situation. Apologies in advance for the length!

I have a friend I've known for a long time (pre-DC) with a DC similar age to mine, 5yo. Her DC (let's call them Blake) is very sensitive, articulate, spoke early on and an early reader - altogether a bright spark and likes chatting to adults and apparently top of the class at school. My DC (let's call them Quinn) is perhaps on the more boisterous end of the spectrum, loves running and climbing and during the toddler years I had to be quite firm to make sure they were safe and didn't bother others, though they've turned into a fairly easy-going and chilled 5yo and great with their baby sibling (who was with grandparents and does not make a direct appearance in this story 😂!). My friend is a fairly gentle parent and likes to validate her child's feelings and opinions, which I don't disagree with so long as not taken to extremes.

We do playdates occasionally, more often in the holidays. Our latest was at an adventure playground/picnic spot. I arrived with my child and Blake was doing an activity book. I suggested that the kids go and play, but Blake said they didn't want to play with Quinn and wanted to do the book. My friend didn't say anything. So I suggested that Quinn go off and play and maybe Blake could join later. Quinn found some other children to play with and they were playing shops and chasing games and stuff like that. Blake stopped doing the book and was upset that Quinn was playing with other children. My friend said, "I know, you're upset because Quinn went off and left you. That wasn't a very nice thing for a friend to do, was it?" I suggested that Blake join the group, but Blake only wanted to play with Quinn, not the other children. Eventually, they played for a bit in the sandpit together.

During the picnic, Blake had a toy with them which Quinn wanted to see. Blake said to Quinn, "You can't play with it because it's mine not yours". My friend said, "Yes, we don't have to share our special things, do we Blake?" I was a bit nonplussed, but I said, "Yes, it's fine to have special things which we just keep for ourselves". I could see Quinn was also a bit bemused by the whole thing, so I told Quinn that I have a race up the climbing-frame with them for a bit. But then my friend said, "Oh, I was going to finish telling you about what we were talking about before..." So I ended up having to stay and listen until she finished her story. By which time (5-10 minutes later), Quinn, thoroughly bored, had gone off to play with some of the children from before. At this point, Blake (still sitting next to us) said, "Quinn didn't finish their lunch and they went off again, that's bad, mummy, isn't it? Quinn is so naughty". My friend made a comment about it not being nice to leave people out. I suggested to Blake to go and play with Quinn but then Blake got upset because Quinn wanted to climb on the climbing-nets rather than make stuff in the sandpit. My friend then said to me, "Quinn is a handful, aren't they? It must be hard dealing with all this with the new baby". Which annoyed me perhaps unfairly because Quinn is actually quite laid-back and helpful and affectionate with the baby.

By now, my patience was wearing thin so I suggested getting the kids ice cream. But apparently Blake doesn't eat ice cream anymore since the whole family are trying to make healthier choices. So (and I know I was in the wrong at this point (😂) I said, "Well, Quinn does eat ice cream" and bought Quinn an ice-cream from the ice-cream van. Hence one upset Blake and one slightly huffy friend. They left soon afterwards. I've since had a message saying "Was nice to catch up. Maybe we could do another meet-up soon when Quinn is more in the mood to play with Blake and doesn't need so much of your time. Are you free next week?"

Am I being oversensitive to be a bit irritated by the whole thing? AIBU to think meet-ups without kids would be better for a bit?

Yeah fuck that, I’d rather go for a smear test than have another ‘playdate’ like that!

That's how I feel 😂! But I was wondering whether I was overreacting/excessively irritated since this was one of the first trips out I've had with my older DC since the baby arrived and I was cross that she and her DC's behaviour spoiled it a bit for me (although I think my DC had a good time regardless).

Yep meeting without the kids if feasable is def the way forward if you like the friend but (understandably!) don't like her mad parenting.
I had a similar friend and her precious one had to have all his own way while continually telling his mum about my kids 'naughtyness- " Muuum I think littleskeletonbones stole out of his mums purse cos he has 2p (he actually found it on the floor) thats soooo naughty isnt it!!2 with mum solemly agreeing rather than saying "oh I don't think he has go and play" or similar. Unfortunately my friend was not up for meeting without him ever as the gentle parenting also involved him staying up all evening and not having a bedtime so was told if we went to a pub on an eve or she came round he would have to accompany us, so the freindship fizzled.

No, I wouldn't have another play date.

You should have stood up to her. Did you not respond to anything she said?

Letting her child say yours is naughty, and using that comment to reinforce the idea that yours left hers out, is not on.

Sometime we cant think straight in the moment, but I think after letting it all slide, only to receive that message later, my blood would have been boiling and I'd be putting her straight.

She's not a a nice adult to have around your child.

I think poor Blake is going to have some issues thanks to his DM. Your children have different personalities and like different things and that is fine, his DM should have handled it differently and stopped being so precious. Again, not poor Blake’s fault. The only thing is, I wouldn’t have been able to hold my tongue with the things she said about your son 🙈 but yeah definitely wouldn’t have another play date purely down to your friend.

I think my DC had a good time regardless
Do you think it's good for him to hear such negative (actually, just plain nasty) things said about him in his presence and see his Mum not defending him?

Yes, it was the message that made me particularly cross, I think.

Obviously my child has done 'naughty' things (for want of a better word) on playdates we've had in the past, as have other children, and I'm not precious about other parents calling DC out on any poor behaviour, although I'd prefer to do it myself if I see it. Likewise, if other children are behaving badly, I'll intervene in a general way and say "let's be nice to each other, shall we?" or "I don't think that's a good idea", especially if the other parent isn't immediately around or doesn't see the behaviour. And of course parents have different standards for what behaviour they think is acceptable. So I wouldn't immediately leap to question another parent's judgement, but the drip-drip effect in this situation was that I felt my DC was being treated unfairly.

Most kids do "naughty things".

What they usually are are just learning things. For example the unrealistic expectation that they'll dance to your tune because that's what makes you happy.

5yo thinking like that aren't the problem. It's parents validating those feelings as normal and acceptable that are.

You could say to her-let’s just have a grownup time without the kids and see how that goes down?

She sounds annoying. I had a friend like this who I liked when the kids weren’t around but become so tedious when we all tried to get together. She “gentle parented” and would never tell her children what to do. It used to take forever for her to leave my house as her children didn’t want to go and wouldn’t put their shoes on. I used to politely wait but one time just had enough and got on with my kid’s routine whilst she went through the indulgent spectacle. One time I managed to bath my kids and put them to bed and they still hadn’t gone! We lost touch when my children started school and she decided to home school.

It used to take forever for her to leave my house as her children didn’t want to go and wouldn’t put their shoes on.

Unconnected, but this made me laugh because I've carried my DC out of several playdates in a fireman's hoist when we'd outstayed our welcome 😂. I have a friend with twins who used to do one, strap them in the car screaming, and then come back for the second one. She'd politely pick up her bag, gather anything they'd left and thank us for hosting whilst holding a kicking, screaming Twin 2. I'd chuck the shoes in the car for her.

If you don't enjoy these play dates I'd stop them.

You can potentially continue the adult friendship if it brings you joy.

I'd try not to overanalyse it.

You're not over reacting. You're under reacting and need to defend your child when other adults are making unfair, disparaging comments about them!

She would probably still be annoying if you met up without the kids as clearly she is going to make digs about your child and talk about his perfect her own child is.

I would message her back explaining why I didn't want to meet up for another play date.

Jesus. Not sure I'd be bothering to meet up again kids or no kids. She sounds like a right judgemental cow 🤣

Oh this sounds a little similar and yes it a touch call. I had a friend and our children were very different. Her daughter was quite difficult, not great at taking turns, pushing in, sulking when they didn't get their own way, not doing as they were asked and my DS was kind but sensitive so used to get upset by her daughter doing these things. And then come and tell me she had upset him.

DC get told to tell a grown up when someone isn't kind to them but then she would say my DS is a snitch, he was 4/5, and I don't mind if he wants to tell me when someone upsets him.

With things like eating before playing etc I always tell our DS some children have different rules to him, so his rules aren't for them, and their rules aren't for him, you do you.

She used to say her style was gentle parenting as she would discover for herself the consequences of her behaviour, she wouldn't see how her DD would be pushing everyone.

It felt a bit fraught at the last meeting and we haven't met up since. I feel I may have key myself down and been a little bit rude, but there is only so much you can appease other people nonsense for, (she probably tells a similar story on her part ) we don't see them now.

I do sometimes think if we had maybe just met up as friends instead of with the kids for a bit until the kids got a touch older it may have been nice, as they did play ok sometimes. So I don't know. All I know is that I will not take my DS into situations he doesn't like and I will have his back.

Oh and yes, you can buy your DS an ice cream even if the other kids isn't having one.

So in summary, I would say if you like her company, catch up child free, but that message afterwards is such a dick move.

I would reply.
I'm not sure that's a fair assessment of the day. Quinn naturally wanted to play at the playground, Blake was encouraged to join in whenever he wanted to. However I think it's best until the kids find a joint interest/activity we maybe just met up child free next time.

See how that lands.

Yeah, I don't like this and wouldn't see her again.

I often see 'gentle parents' (of which I probs am one) criticised on here for empathising with their children's feelings ("you feel upset because you wanted to play just with Quinn, and Quinn is playing with the other children"). I think that's actually a really helpful thing to help upset children identify, and to just reflect it back to them without embarrassedly covering it up to avoid offending other listeners (especially adults!) or diminishing it by immediately adding your own challenge ("but you said you didn't want to play with Quinn"). I think that's often perceived as either passive-aggressively criticising Quinn (it's not, the statement is entirely about Blake and how Blake feels), or as centring the child (it is - centring them in their own feelings; after you've acknowledged that, you can start bringing in what they might think is happening from Quinn's perspective. Children are often better able to understand others after they have themselves been understood).

But that's actually not what this parent did at all - she really did just externalise her own frustrations by adding that Quinn's behaviour was the problem, and instead of neutrally reflecting back Blake's own emotions, layered her own (actually quite vicious) judgment on top. About a 5yo. That didn't help her kid in the moment, it won't help her kid in the longer term, and it's not a kind way to behave to OP and her child/ren.

She sounds like she's struggling tbh, and is clearly fundamentally motivated by love and good intentions, but she doesn't get to make another family's life unpleasant for that reason.

Tbh, children who are able to go and make their own friends at a playground etc (I have one of these too) don't need an organised playdate, so I only arrange those with either the kids she gets on really well with or with parents I really enjoy chatting to. This sounds like it doesn't meet either of those criteria.

There is no way I would sit there and listen to a ‘friend’ speak about my child like that. I am not oblivious to my children’s flaws - they’re not perfect even if I wouldn’t change them for anything. If someone was saying my child was naughty or unkind when they had done nothing wrong, I would not be seeing them again even without children.

Part of my job is helping adults to understand and own their own feelings rather than blame them on others when they don’t behave exactly the way they want them to. Parents like her explain why my job is necessary. She’s creating an entitled asshole when they become an adult.

Had to laugh about the ice-cream 😁Well done you!

Reminded me of the time when I was out with my Daughter, her DP and her 9 year old son, one Beautiful Sunny Easter Sunday. I get on with my Son-in-Law pretty well too, however he can sometimes be a bit too strict IMO. I never comment on it usually; however on this occasion my grandson asked if he could have an ice-cream from one of the vans when we came back from our walk. SIL said no - because he's had his lunch and didn't need one. Fair enough, wasn't going to obviously stick my oar in, however I did say - Oh! Well I am going to get one when we come back. Grandson got his ice-cream when we got back 😁

This isn’t the same at all. To me, this was undermining the parents who had said no. It drives me mad when I say no to my children and then grandparents say yes. Makes me look like the mean one.

If you think they are too strict, have a constructive conversation with them about it or keep out of it.

Why would you want to repeat that experience? Maybe you're just too different.

I'd do one more playdate ready equipped with comebacks should they be needed.
Another ridiculous one and that would be the last time I saw either Blake or his Mum.

“Sorry, Q doesn’t want to play with B next week. I’ll let you know when he feels like trying again.”

Job done.

I didn't see it as undermining my son in law. But I wasn't going to be dictated to either and he was being much too hard in my opinion - the place was crawling with ice-cream vans and loads of people were buying them and walking past us eating them I think my actual words were, oh well that is a bit awkward, but I was going to get one (for me) when we got back, before you said that!

He has been told a lot, by his own Mother, that he is much too strict with the grandson.

By the time we got back, my SIL had changed his mind and had given him money for an ice cream long before I raised it again

I’m sorry OP, I found it hard to read as I got distracted by the names- Blake & Quinn sound very north London (I live in London btw)! I agree with pp that it doesn’t seem to be working to meet up with the kids too. I’ve come across other parents like your friend, I think she is probably insecure & it makes her feel better about her parenting to be disparaging about your DC. I love the ice cream detail btw!