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Original poster

Friend fallen out with me over CIO

88 replies

ART2022 · 20/07/2023 14:02

I don’t know if I should post this in a different section but I’m after a bit of advice.

A close friend and I had babies at the same time, both ftm. My friend decided to do CIO with her daughter as she was really struggling with sleep, which I totally understand. It worked for her and her daughter usually sleeps through the night. However she recently told me she doesn’t ever go in and check on her if she cries in the night as she doesn’t want to go into the room in case her daughter wants picking up. Instead she puts headphones in and goes back to sleep. She said sometimes takes an hour for her daughter to stop crying. She asked if I thought this was ok and I said personally, I thought that CIO was to help a baby learn to fall asleep, which her daughter has got the hang of and since they don’t use a monitor either, I would worry that there could be something wrong e.g. bumped head on the cot or poorly and she wouldn’t be aware.

My friend was really upset and now whenever she has a few drinks she brings it up again. I don’t know if I’m just being over the top cautious being a first time mum and next time it comes up I should just say it’s fine? I feel awful that I’ve made her feel bad but I only gave my opinion when asked and I only have my limited experience to draw upon. I don’t want to ask other friends with babies for advice because we all know each other and I don’t think that’s fair.

OP posts:

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Awrite · 20/07/2023 16:11

I wouldn't worry about losing this friend. In fact, I would be distancing myself. This is not a different parenting choice, it's abuse.

Sugargliderwombat · 20/07/2023 16:13

Seasideanticscanleadtosandybuckets · 20/07/2023 15:29

Going to put trigger warning here because it haunted me tbh...
My mate (long been nc now not dc related) admitted to me when she was home post c section with both her dd's they went into their own rooms. They weren't seen to or fed during the night as she said they had to learn to sleep through.. Her dh was abusive which all came out but I am pretty sure they were her ideas not his on this.
I never saw her in the same light after that chat.
I have done sleep programmes with GP for a few of my dc. Never entailed leaving them to cry more than a few mins
. Sleep deprivation does make us consider all options but she did this from birth...

This is awful neglect, they must have been sleeping in shitty nappies and starving hungry. I would have reported them to social services. How can any sane person do this to a wee baby?

Wenfy · 20/07/2023 16:21

Next time she brings it up, double down on it, and make it clear your position isn’t changing and she shouldn’t try to manipulate you into doing so. If she can’t handle the choices she made that’s on her not you

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Mixedmixed · 20/07/2023 16:30

Your friend is neglecting her baby.

She knows she is in the wrong and chooses to punish you over it rather than herself for calling her out.

StaunchMomma · 20/07/2023 16:31

She shouldn't have asked if she can't take a response!

No monitor AND ignoring cries does leave some room for things to go wrong. You were just pointing out the obvious.

escapingthecity · 20/07/2023 16:32

I agree with you. What if your kid is sick, or has a dirty nappy, or falls out of bed?

Spottypineapple · 20/07/2023 16:34

I think she's upset with you because you told her a truth that she knew deep down and didnt want to hear.

But she asked your directly and YANBU

Hopefully this will have made her think twice about what she's doing.

Nowthenhere · 20/07/2023 16:35

If an adult was crying for over 10 minutes in the same home, you wouldn't ignore.

If someone whose legs or arms didn't work and they called out for help in the same home, it's unlikely you would ignore.

But mums whose small human still believes that they and their mum are one person, who is on their back with organs available to all animal preditor because they still believe they are wild animals requests assistance, mums ignore.

We have a built in animal instinct to protect our young but this mum choses to ignore this and only parent during the day?

Was the trauma of her birth, was the lack of support in the home, was the need to financially get back to employment so great that this is who she was willing to sacrifice?

Babies brains remember. Most adults that were left to cry for long periods of time have been found to be adults with deteriorating mental health issues.

Each time she brings it up, ask if she wants you to come over and help with housework so she can hug her baby.

BlushBlue · 20/07/2023 16:36

YANBU. What if she's unwell and needs meds.

DappledOliveGroves · 20/07/2023 16:37

The whole point of CIO is that a baby will learn to self-soothe and sleep IF THEY'RE OK. They still wake up and cry if there's a problem (illness, teething, cold, hot). That's how you know there's something wrong, when a normally good sleeper cries at night for no apparent reason. At which point, any sane parent would check on their child and make sure they're ok.

SoGiveMeCoffeeAndTV · 20/07/2023 16:37

She knows it’s not ok and she probably asked your opinion hoping you’d agree with her so she could feel better about neglecting her child.

AlanJohnsonsBeamer · 20/07/2023 16:39

YANBU.

That's a crazy amount of time to let a baby cry. Poor thing.

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 20/07/2023 16:44

You shouldn't really ask people for opinions if you don't want to hear what they think!

Greenfishy · 20/07/2023 16:46

Christ what if the baby wasn’t well?
YANBU, at all.
She asked your opinion.

StaunchMomma · 20/07/2023 16:48

My baby needed me (wet the bed, sick, temperature, itchy eczema) and the idea I would have just left him is awful.

This is the crux of it - how is her baby supposed to let her know something is wrong if all cries through the night are ignored?! Incredibly worrying.

StaunchMomma · 20/07/2023 16:49

StaunchMomma · 20/07/2023 16:48

My baby needed me (wet the bed, sick, temperature, itchy eczema) and the idea I would have just left him is awful.

This is the crux of it - how is her baby supposed to let her know something is wrong if all cries through the night are ignored?! Incredibly worrying.

Meant to put that first bit in bold, as it's a quote. Sorry.

rainyskylight · 20/07/2023 16:52

Once I didn’t go in to my DD when she was crying hard, about 90mins after she went to bed, because I was dealing with my DH who was really quite sick with attending mess. She seemed to doze back off to sleep and I was relieved. Went back in to check on her afterwards and she’d thrown up all over her cot and was asleep lying in her own sick. I felt so awfully guilty.

your friend asked you a direct question and I agree with your response.

N4ish · 20/07/2023 16:54

You did the right thing. I could never ever pretend that I agreed with CIO (even the 10/15 minute versions that some people think is ok) in order to keep a friend happy. It would change the way I felt about that person and I wouldn't consider them a friend any longer.

Blarn · 20/07/2023 16:55

It reminds me of that nspcc advert where the voice over says that the little boy doesn't cry because he knows no one is coming.

Your friend asked your opinion so can't get annoyed that you gave it and it doesn't align with her own. But also not going to a baby who has woken up crying - and doing it repeatedly - is neglect.

oatmilk4breakfast · 20/07/2023 16:59

I just want to say well done for speaking your mind. I think it's actually appalling and really shocking in this age of unlimited information that she could actually think that her baby's cries mean nothing in the middle of the night. This has actually raised the hairs on the back of my neck. I think her actions are shocking and you should direct her towards some baby communication/parenting classes.

MammaTo · 20/07/2023 16:59

Putting headphones in is despicable. I’m coming up to 7 months of a baby that hasn’t slept more then 2 hours since we brought him home and I have considered the Ferber method before I go back to work. But headphones is awful. She asked your opinion and didn’t like it because she knows she’s awful.

roarrfeckingroar · 20/07/2023 16:59

I think shes neglectful. CIO is vile with small babies and not going to check on them at all... well, what if something is wrong? Selfish woman.

YukoandHiro · 20/07/2023 17:01

YANBU. You are right. She brings it up because she knows you're right.

roarrfeckingroar · 20/07/2023 17:01

Nowthenhere · 20/07/2023 16:35

If an adult was crying for over 10 minutes in the same home, you wouldn't ignore.

If someone whose legs or arms didn't work and they called out for help in the same home, it's unlikely you would ignore.

We have a built in animal instinct to protect our young but this mum choses to ignore this and only parent during the day?

Was the trauma of her birth, was the lack of support in the home, was the need to financially get back to employment so great that this is who she was willing to sacrifice?

Babies brains remember. Most adults that were left to cry for long periods of time have been found to be adults with deteriorating mental health issues.

Each time she brings it up, ask if she wants you to come over and help with housework so she can hug her baby.

This

YukoandHiro · 20/07/2023 17:02

Quartz2208 · 20/07/2023 14:26

There is sleep training and then there is your child waking in the night (and there are many reasons this could happen) and ignoring them which isn’t a parenting choice it’s neglect.

Yes to this.

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