Friend fallen out with me over CIO

[ART2022]

I don’t know if I should post this in a different section but I’m after a bit of advice.

A close friend and I had babies at the same time, both ftm. My friend decided to do CIO with her daughter as she was really struggling with sleep, which I totally understand. It worked for her and her daughter usually sleeps through the night. However she recently told me she doesn’t ever go in and check on her if she cries in the night as she doesn’t want to go into the room in case her daughter wants picking up. Instead she puts headphones in and goes back to sleep. She said sometimes takes an hour for her daughter to stop crying. She asked if I thought this was ok and I said personally, I thought that CIO was to help a baby learn to fall asleep, which her daughter has got the hang of and since they don’t use a monitor either, I would worry that there could be something wrong e.g. bumped head on the cot or poorly and she wouldn’t be aware.

My friend was really upset and now whenever she has a few drinks she brings it up again. I don’t know if I’m just being over the top cautious being a first time mum and next time it comes up I should just say it’s fine? I feel awful that I’ve made her feel bad but I only gave my opinion when asked and I only have my limited experience to draw upon. I don’t want to ask other friends with babies for advice because we all know each other and I don’t think that’s fair.

What if her DC has a high temp, or vomited or some other of the many reasons that they would need to be seen to in the night? That isn't controlled crying it's neglect.

She’s a terrible neglectful parent and if she can leave her baby to cry for an hour without even bothering to check on her this won’t be the only awful decision she makes. Since you can’t protect the baby you’ve got to step away. It’ll be so upsetting witnessing her be such a dick.

It’s everyone’s business when babies and children are made to suffer at the hands of their parents. What a stupid comment.

That is absolutely neglect. I wouldn’t be friends with her either.

There’s CIO and there’s ignoring them. She’s ignoring the child. Poor kids learning no one’s coming to help.

Ugh just reading this upset me. Poor baby. Leaving a baby alone crying in the dark scared / hungry / thirsty / ill / in pain and baby learning no one is coming to help makes me feel physically ill.

When she says that next time you should just agree, tell her no. If she doesn't want an honest opinion not to ask.

It's not ok and she should feel bad! I sleep trained mine but I always went in if they woke and cried in the night, whether they were ill or had a bad dream or just needed a cuddle, putting in headphones and ignoring them would be neglectful.

She is likely bringing it up all the time because she knows what she is doing is wrong. It's not just wrong nor is it CIO, it is infact neglect. Maybe you should respond with; I was just so shocked to hear of you being so neglectful.

@ART2022 She asked your opinion and you gave it. Don't say it's fine, because you don't believe it is.

I'm hoping your friend isn't a truly terrible person, but rather a nervous ftm who has doubled down on a method that 'worked' and doesn't know how to walk back from it, even though it's no longer necessary. She might still be clinging onto it as a comfort blanket in those moments, because she's worried about risking the utter hell that is sleep deprivation again. What she's doing is extreme imo and quite risky, I think, (especially given her DD usually sleeps through so night waking probably is indicative of genuine upset of some kind), but perhaps she needs some support with building her confidence?

If she's a close friend and you feel she's otherwise fully invested in her baby's health and happiness, why not ask her how she feels about it all, without judgment if you can? I can't bear to hear my DD cry for more than a minute (I sleep trained very gently because DD had us on our knees, and it completely shredded me). I can imagine it's shit for your friend to her her DC cry, and worse to feel she has to ignore it or else go back to 'square one.' She's probably upset and bringing it up because deep down she doesn't like doing it herself and feels bad and judged about it. That's the kindest interpretation, anyway.

If she really isn't bothered about doing it, however, there's not much you can do apart from stick to your guns each time she asks your opinion or brings it up. It's not like you're throwing it in her face every time she sees you.

Going to put trigger warning here because it haunted me tbh...
My mate (long been nc now not dc related) admitted to me when she was home post c section with both her dd's they went into their own rooms. They weren't seen to or fed during the night as she said they had to learn to sleep through.. Her dh was abusive which all came out but I am pretty sure they were her ideas not his on this.
I never saw her in the same light after that chat.
I have done sleep programmes with GP for a few of my dc. Never entailed leaving them to cry more than a few mins
. Sleep deprivation does make us consider all options but she did this from birth...

Yeah she isnt coping, is she? She still needs to go check the baby because they WILL wake for all sorts of reasons that require attention from the parent eg hot, cold, dirty nappy, hungry or god they just need a cuddle. If CIO worked for her than she should be comfortable going in to soothe and deal knowing baby will be able to settle back to sleep. CIO doesnt mean baby magically sleeps through the night forever more.

I couldnt be friends with someone like this. This is a massive safeguarding failure. Could she have something like PND?

How old is the DC?

Thats terrible. Those poor babies probably woke up in shitty nappies extremely hungry.

She didn't critique her parenting, she was asked for her opinion and gave it.

The more I think about this the more disturbing it becomes. There's a reason that humans, throughout evolution, have retained the crying mechanism in infants - because it's a lifesaving mechanism and the only one a baby has until it grows and develops more. I do think she's neglectful and it could lead to harm to the baby.

There's this, and then ignoring your baby when it's screaming in the crib.

She's being neglectful, she has no idea whether her baby is ok (hot/cold/sick/feverish) and should not be putting in headphones and going back to sleep!

Some people shouldn't be parents.

I agree fully with what you have said the fact she brings it up clearly means she also knows its not OK either and is probably feeling guilty for it!
Not having a monitor etc to check they are OK if not going in is also stupid! But so is leaving a baby foe up to an hour to cry!

I still use a monitor with my near 18 month old it means I can see if he is resettling himself or needs one of us to go in. But it's also meant we have known when something is wrong and he was vomiting badly!

Also, most controlled crying methods state that you mustn't just leave your baby to cry endlessly, you need to soothe them at least every 15 mins. An hour is ludicrous!

Its neglect and dangerous. What happens if the baby poops or vomits in the night? Do they have to learn to self soothe through that? Her technique is not a technique at all.

Did you notice the bit where the friend actually asked for OP's views?

Not picking a crying child up for up to an hour and putting headphones on to ignore them during the night? I'm going to bite and put my judgy pants on and say that what she's doing is terrible. I know someone who's child died during the night without hearing anything and they were a much, much older child. You don't just ignore a baby for that long, they cry for a reason.

It is neglect. She's probably lucky her neighbours haven't reported her yet but her poor, poor child.

It sounds like a shitty thing to do (her) and you worded your reply well. This is her issue !

OP, you were absolutely right. Crying is a baby's only way of communicating. How else are they supposed to let you know that they're ill, in pain, or whatever? What lesson are you teaching them other than that Mummy doesn't care that they're distressed?

I remember reading that babies in those massive Rumanian orphanages didn't cry because they had learnt that it never resulted in any response - and that the silence was quite chilling. Unsurprisingly, those that were adopted were found to have quite major problems with communication and in mental health terms as a result.

YANBU.

Your friend feels bad about her own choices and wanted you to tell her they were ok, even though she really feels they are not.

Unfortunately she actually asked you for your opinion which you gave.

This is all on her and not you. She is behaving really immaturely. She needs to own her own decisions.

Honestly she’s expecting her baby to show more independence than she’s capable of showing herself. She’s expecting you to attend to her feelings and emotions whilst she puts on headphones rather than attending to her own baby’s emotions and needs.

And I don’t care how harsh that sounds. It’s the actual truth.

She asked because she knows it's a shitty thing to do.