How difficult is it for high achieving academic parents to relax and not push their children?

[spokette]

I ask because DH has already mapped out the degree courses (Maths)and universities (Oxbridge) that DTS will be attending and they are only 3years and 11 months.

DH and I both have PhDs in science subjects and DH recently achieved an MBA with distinction.

DTS start school in September and I want them to thrive in terms of their social development as well as academically. I know that DH wants this too but he wants them to be top of the class. He already has plans in place to tutor them in maths himself. He means well but I think he needs to accept that DTS have to develop at their own pace and they may not be scientifically inclined - they maybe arty!

Is there something that DH didn't achieve academically that he wants to experience vicariously via his children? Did he NOT go to Oxbridge but would have liked to.

I've got a degree from Oxford, and DH is very bright but didn't finish his Oxford degree. So we are pretty relaxed about how DS does at school, as we've seen the ups and downs of academic achievement.

It sounds like a good thing you are the voice of reason! The worst thing your DH can possibly do is put pressure on the DTs to excel in maths - they will run a mile from it and/or feel that they are constantly letting their father down. If they show an aptitude as teenagers, then fine, but deciding on their Uni fate at 3 is ridiculous and dangerous. If he wants them to end up in a former poly in a grim town reading Knitting Studies then he's going aout it the rght way .

I think that, while we all want our children to do well, it is pretty selfish to push them into the direction that YOU want them to go in. Surely 'doing well' is about having a healthy, happy life, achieving one's fullest potential and one's OWN dreams and ambitions - not about living out the wants and wishes of your parents? It also puts unnecessary pressure on a child to know that if they are not academic / good at maths / destined for Oxbridge then they have some how let you down. I try to project my own arty, literary background on to my son as little as possible, personally. Why i limit his world to what I find interesting or am good at?

I think it's OK for him to want things for them, but not to push them and certainly not to make them do maths! (Although with you 2 as parents they may well want to anyway of course )

If it helps, IME "top of the class" doesn't happen any more - my kids' schools don't do reports where all their exam marks are added up and averaged and you get a class position - all they get is a mark and a grade.

I think he is going way over the top and likely to put them of learning!

It is highly likely that your DT's will do well as they have two highly educated parents who are both interested in their education, BUT your Dh really needs to be careful as he sounds like he could put them off before they have even got started. I assume you were joking about the Maths degree and mapping out which university they will go to? .

Let them be children and encourage a love for learning. Take them to museums talk about science and maths in everyday situations, ds (3.6) is already fascinated in the universe. Please please stop any your dh making any plans about university as they will rebel and probably end up not going to university at all if he carries on.

Hmm. DH is a research scientist and has a PhD blah blah blah and he admitted once that he'd find it tough if the DC were no great shakes academically. At the time I was a bit shocked, but to be fair it's something outside his experience, and he was just being honest. It doesn't mean that he would love them any less or anything, but it would be tough.

If there's one thing you can try and knock on the head, make it the "top of the class" nonsense. It's competitiveness for the point of competitiveness, could be very damaging in the long run.

Is this going to turn into a how many degrees do you have type of thread?

I think your dh (as you've rightly assessed) needs to completely chill out or he risks alienating your dts. The job of a parent is to provide a loving, carefree and happy childhood.

The rest will take care of itself.

depends on your perception of the quality of teaching, your dc's academic achievement at a particular school when the time comes. I think if that all meets your expectations, you'd be able to sit back and relax;otherwise of course you'll be looking at ways of improving your dc's chances in education and probably won't be able to be laid back about it.

My dh is a professor at a university and I have a first degree though not a PHd and I really can honestly say that neither of us give a t* whether ds does well academically or not.

Maybe this is because we both come from very working class backgrounds (my dh's dad was a builder as was mine) and have siblings who didn't go to university but are very happy a and quite frankly have ended up with more money than we have.

I personally want ds to find his 'place in life'. I want him to know himself so well and to trust himself that his decisions about what he does are in keeping with what he believes about himself and with what he values.

Thus if he values money and 'outward' achievement' and gets pleasure & a rush from that I would be happy if he has a job in the city or runs his own business and makes a mint.

If he wants to be a poet/artist and values that above making money then I'd be happy for him to pursue that.

If you ask me which one of these two (admitedly rather extreme) visions I prefer, I can honestly say I really don't care as long as ds chooses his life for himself and not as a way to 'please dh or me'

I can't think of may lifestyles that ds might choose that would in any way 'disappoint me' or make me unhappy
Apart from the obvious of becoming a serious criminal or drug addict etc and also possibly if he became a member of the BNP.

Other than that I really don't think I mind too much what he does as long as he lives his life in accordance with his own values and dreams.

At mapping out their lives in that much detail at 3 years! How very depressing

I wouldn't say I was a particularly high academic acheiver, no post grad qualifications at all. However, my siblings, cousins and I are more educated than anyone in the previous generations of our family.

My Mum is a terrible snob and pushed us all into academia. I think she was living the life she wanted through us. I won't be doing the same with dd. There are so many routes to success these days which need not involve Oxbridge degrees and postgrad quals.

My sister is about to sit her GCSE's and is expected to do well. She intends to do A levels but is as yet undecided beyond that (very sensible, 16 us too young to decide the course of one's life). Mum is terribly upset that she may not go to university as "E will miss out on an amazing experience if she doesn't go". Mum has a very romanticized idea of university imho. Mine and my younger brother's experience is of good times, yes, but also extreme stress and huge debt. My sister sees that and thinks "well maybe I can get a good job at 18 that will train me" - she considered the Police Force or is thinking of a job that is lowish-paid initially but for a company that will sponsor her through university on day release. Very sensible imho, to consider all the options.

Incidentally, of my close RL circle, those of us that don't have degrees (my dh, my other brother and friend's dh) have the most senior, higher paid jobs. Make of that what you will.

DH really excels at maths and wishes he had pursued this as a degree rather than chemistry so I think that is what is influencing him. He went to a top 20 Russell group university so I don't get the obsession with Oxbridge. Where he works in London is quite academic, full of high achievers and with only a few from Oxbridge. He needs to remember that he has achieved his position because of his own hard work and intellect, even though like me, he went to an average comprehensive.

A colleague of DH's father has asked what DH's parents did so that both children ended up with PhDs (DH's sister has PhD too) and DH's father said nothing, just provided a supportive home environment. Both of DH's parents left school at 14yo and my parents did not attend school beyond the age of 10yo!

I believe that a loving,supportive home environment is the most important factor and I need to remind DH that his parents did not hot-house him in order for him to achieve academically.

I'm with lazycow. My dh too is a uni lecturer, although not quite a prof yet! and I have an arts background but I don't really care what ds acheives at school as long as he is happy with the choices he makes and the chances he has.

I just want my ds to be happy and contribute something to society.

The thing that really worries me is that he has said that if they choose a vocational career like building or plumbing, he would be very disappointed.

My response to this is that there is a possibility that they may not be academically inclined so I would be delighted if they chose something like that as a career because it means that they will always work and probably end up quite well off compared to us!!

Lazycow - I love your post, it brought tears to my eyes reading it!

You sound very sensible Spokette.

My dh is a maths lecturer and he says that there seems to be very little relationship between people being given extra maths tuition as children and going on to be good mathematicians. Obviously if they love maths of their own accord but their school turns out to be rubbish it may be worth giving them more opportunities in maths, but otherwise extra tutoring is not going to turn them into geniuses.

I was a very high achiever at school, straight A student with no effort whatsoever. I was on a full scholarship to an exclusive girls school and hated it. I was never praised for any achievement other than academic ones, despite being a top gymnast as well, the only way to please my father was to study and achieve what he wanted me to.

Consequently by the time I took O levels I was really sick of the whole malarkey and ended up dropping out of school half way through my A levels, despite having been earmarked for Oxbridge - I was a complete disappointment to my parents and still crave approval. Had I been left to my own devices and studied what I'd wanted to, at my own pace I would probably have got the degree etc that I wanted and had a happy career - I now find myself aged 35 studying in the area that I originally wanted to but wasn't allowed to because it didn't meet Dad's opinion of a worthwhile subject.

Do not let your DH do this to your children - if you are both high achievers then the chances are they will do well anyway but the more controlling and critical you are, the further you will push them away.

Sorry for length of this but it is so dangerous to do this to your kids.

Thanks Wisteria, that is what I am worried about. DH has stipulated that they will study Maths, Physics or an Engineering degree and then go to work in the City.

I intend to make sure that they decide what they want to do.

DH is a research scientist and has a PhD and is constantly nagging on to the dc to sit with their books and learn, learn, learn. With dh it isn't just the fact that he's got a PhD but he was brought up like that, a child's only duty is to learn and study and get through school. No toys or TV or fun in general.

I keep trying to get through to my dc that as long as they try their best, then that is good enough and I give them plenty of praise when they do well, in the mean time they even say dad is never pleased even if we get A grades.

Sounds like he needs to get a grip on his own disappointments about not studying maths/at oxbridge etc rather than impose them on your kids.

Not all kids are cut out for academic achievement - their aptitude or inclination may be otherwise. And sometimes life can play funny tricks on you - at school I was described as being gifted at language - whilst DS has severely delayed language and understanding [hmmm]. So at this point in time I would just be happy to think of DS living independently and working at any job whatsoever he enjoyed, whether it be shop work/fast food work/waiter or something more highbrow.

We are "high achieving academic parents" and we have no intention of mapping out DD's and (unborn) DB's degree courses. It's your husband, not his education, that is causing this problem!
Actually, lots of people have said to us that we must want DD to follow in our footsteps, but we know how hard and frustrating an academic life can be, and would be warning DD of the downsides rather than pushing her towards it.

The trouble with academic parents is that they sought (and presumably obtained) approval for their straight As. They worry that life without the straight As will close off certain professions.

This is of course a valid worry, but if your DCs understand that they need straight As for certain professions, then presumably if they actually (a) wanted to follow those professions and (b) had enough natural talent, then they will do the work themselves.