Explaining mental load

[OhwhyOY]

What's the best way anyone has come across to explain the mental load of parenting to someone who doesn't get it? My friend and i were talking yesterday about our DC (both 2) and how hard it is sometimes to get their dads/grandparents etc to understand that physical childcare is in a way the easiest part of having a child, it's the endless other responsibilities, decisions etc on top of the childcare that make it so exhausting, particularly with that mental load often falling on one parent. Would love a snappy way of explaining it or a good article or something.

Before I even read this, I anticipated the phrases, "husband with a big important job"..."owning a penis doesn't exempt you from"..."my kick-ass daughter would never"

I wasn't disappointed

understands exactly what my DH brings to the household and it's a more than equal partnership between us even if he can't wash his pants on time

It’s depressing how many women think that being a feminist means sneering at other women about how superior they are because they and their daughters would NEVER be victims of the patriarchy.

Try looking at the wider system and understanding WHY so many women end up in the situations they’re in rather than just belittling and insulting them for not being as strong/clever/amazing enough to not end up with a man who sees pants washing as a woman’s job.

Feminism means understanding the patriarchal system and how it fucks women over at every turn until one day they wake up with that kind of bloke, and no idea how it happened. Sure it doesn’t happen to everyone but there’s a good dose of luck and privilege attached to that (and yes, being born with certain characteristics that more easily enable you to push back IS luck). So stop patting yourselves on the back about how well you’re doing and how much better you will raise your daughters (another example of luck, this time theirs) and maybe channel that energy into fighting the good fight FOR women and not against them?

I think it's interesting/useful to compare how society values the mental load associated with domestic tasks and the mental load associated with business.

Domestic- planning, juggling conflicting demands, phone calls to make arrangements, thinking ahead to make sure everything you need it ready, co-ordinating who does which tasks, keeping track of whether tasks have been done, decision making, dealing with unexpected problems etc. All apparently only take a few minutes and are given little value. Very frequently others will do specific tasks but wait to be asked and expect full instructions. If the person who is bearing the mental load complains, many would agreed that 'they should just have asked' etc.

Business- similar mental load type tasks. Considered to be manager roles and paid better than jobs with less mental load. Acknowledged that taking on the responsibility for decision making/pulling a project together is more stressful than just doing specific tasks. Managers will complain about employees who don't take initiative to see that a task needs doing and/or constantly needs guidance on what to do next etc- most people will agree that these people should be pulling their weight and should not expect to be spoon fed.

*"Before I even read this, I anticipated the phrases, "husband with a big important job"..."owning a penis doesn't exempt you from"..."my kick-ass daughter would never

I wasn't disappointed"*

@InceyWinceySpidy if you had read my posts properly you would see I was the one with the big important job and my DH was dealing with the mental load. I do have kick ass daughters though and I'm proud of them. I wonder if some of it is due to the fact DH was the SAHD (which was a LOT more unusual back then) as he set a good role model re equality of parenting, I acknowledge that we were very fortunate to be in that position for him to do that. Also take the point re patriarchy and women arguing won't help. I do just get angry when I see posts about men shirking their responsibilities and it being seen as an inherently male thing that is just accepted.

I do actually think male SAHPs are a good thing to model equality so DCs expect total equality from their future partners (certainly my DDs do). The necessity these days for both parents to work due to finances probably makes this a pipe dream and I know women will just get fucked over even more as they will still be the default main parent. (Probably a whole different thread). The school always always used to ring me for bumped heads etc even though the first contact was DH. Fucking infuriating.

I still think a lot of "mental load" stuff is horribly exaggerated as it's just normal life and should just be dealt with by both parties without requiring drama and endless lists. Lists of the work involved to to get ready for parties won't be done as people will be too busy just coming home from work and going to parties, hopefully things will be more streamlined if that makes sense!

As mother to older DC I am quite envious so much of it is done by technology now as it speeds so much up. Putting cash on an app to pay for lunches, ticking a box for parents evening, texts for party invites. It's so cool! Perhaps there isn't so much infuriating finding of scrunched up letters at the bottom of school bags the day before 'wear a special costume to school day" etc and having to make sure you have the right change for lunches when you only have a five pound note in your bag etc etc. I absolutely do accept DH did a lot of work.

I wish they'd stop those fucking stupid "wear a xxx costume" for all sorts of reasons (eg peer pressure to buy a Christmas jumper) now that's a mental load no one needs, penis or not

Good comparison. If I think as toddlers as clients, versus "work" clients, god knows I'd pick the work clients as easier to handle 

Also, at the end of the month, it's nicer to see money in your bank account to spend as a tangible asset, then just looking at your DC and thinking well we got through April and remembered to make an Easter bonnet for school. I think (personally) looking after DC just doesn't feel as rewarding as the benefits from work (I realise this divides opinion and I may be judged even more!) ) and that's why I preferred to work. I think DH would have felt resentful if I thought his days were "easier" than mine and would have started making lists to show what he did. I know his days were harder than mine! I hate the term "mental load" and think it can be hugely exaggerated, but this is due to resentment from the other parent not recognising the hard work. Again it comes back to partners not pulling their weight or recognising their efforts.

Apologies for multiple posts! Just to try and be more positive, the rewards and recognition of bringing up DC (or mental load if you insist ) are so much bigger when they are older!

DH can look at (eg) DCs doing their uni/CPD work diligently and on time, and felt happy that he "instilled" that in their childhood by helping with homework and setting up habits (let's not talk about DS2 who bucked that trend . But then DH can look at DS2 and feel proud that he has brought up a young man who is kind and thoughtful, actively supports his GF in her studies and eg laundry just isn't "a thing" in their house as they both do it automatically).

They're not perfect by any means but DH instilled a lot of their good qualities just by being there (more than I was) and teaching them, and he can feel proud he did a really good job, and we both recognise that. That will be the same for everyone here even if it's a fucking nightmare at the moment

https://www.mamamia.com.au/delegate-mental-load/

I found this to be a good example

Surely u realise it’s just wot everyone else does, it’s part of having children and being an adult.

This.

Explaining to grandparents particularly grandmothers, aunts, etc about mental load is patronising.

Telling them there is now a term for this if they didn't know may not be.

@Skybluepinky what everyone else does? Or all the women you know? How many men do you know who are aware that the 3 year old is about to outgrow all their socks, or it's time to start searching for a new insurance deal, or that there's an inset day to think of childcare for, or the little one has itched their head 3 times today so it might be worth a little look through, or the 7 year old has been quiet coming out of school 3 times this week so might need a chat, or it's a baking lesson coming up but you havent seen a list so you best check through bags, or you think the window cleaner might have been, but is there any fivers in the house? Go to shop on the way home to break a note. What dates dentist again? Is it booked? Do we need to arrange early pick up?

I might have thought of any number of these things during the course of day, and I might have mentioned several of them to DP. How many of them will have occured to him before me saying? Maybe one or two. And he might remember one or two after I've handed over. But NO WAY will he have thought of these himself in the course of a normal day. No chance.

Can you honestly say in your house that your DP will think of these things without you mentioning it at all? That you will go to the kids drawers and the next size socks will be waiting for them without you giving any inkling it's needed?

Nope. I don’t realise that, because it’s not what everyone else does at all. It’s what most mothers do.
My dh is great, he totally pulls his weight. A while back I threw my toys out of the pram over meal planning and shopping and he took on all of it (he was already doing most of the cooking). It’s changed a little now due to various factors, but the point is, I spoke up, he acted, and he owned it, he didn’t wait for instructions. But. If I am hit by a bus tomorrow, he will be totally lost when it comes to school, clubs, lunches, play dates, homework, what goes in to school on what day, what uniform is knackered, which clothes have been grown out of, what presents need buying for what birthday parties, and so on. Paying the sports coaches, cleaner etc. And that’s ok, to a point, because if the reverse happened, I would be totally lost when it came to other things that he ‘manages’. If I start feeling like I ‘own’ a disproportionate number of things, then I’ll speak up. But I think it’s pretty normal and natural for one person to ‘own’ the mental load of certain things - too many chiefs and all that - but what is also sadly normal is for the woman to own 90% or more of the mental load and for men to be congratulated because they mow the lawn and take the bins out when asked. And that’s not ok, and we need to start saying so- and, importantly, just handing over responsibility for some of it.

Hollow laugh from all the single mums who have juggled all this along with their careers and commutes, by themselves, for 18 years….

I saved this off a Mumsnet post ages ago, sorry I can't remember who originally posted it.

Who sorts out a babysitter when one is needed ?
Who makes the GP/dentist appointments and takes them there too ?
Who take time off work when DC is ill ?
Who does the school run every day ?
Who organizes the before/ after school club ?
Who shops for and buys his kids clothes ?
Who knows what size clothes his kids even wear ?
Who arranges school holiday childcare ?
Who plans and executes birthday parties/ sleepovers/play dates ?
Who keeps track of school uniform losses ?
Who plans and buys school uniforms/ bags/ supplies etc?
Who washes and irons kids clothes/ uniforms/ sports kit ?
Who plans and buys food for kids meals/ packed lunches etc ?
Who cleans DC room and washes bedding etc ?
Who knows what to get DC and buys ready for Xmas ?
Who wraps DC gifts and decorates house for DC Xmas ?
Who makes DC costume for school plays/ Xmas show/ Halloween etc ?
Who makes sure DC says thank you to everyone for gifts given ?
Who knows what DC is currently 'into' and buys accordingly?
Who will tell relatives what DC would want for birthday etc ?
Who can and will help DC when friendship issues arise ?
Who can soothe an injured DC and do first aid ?

@MagicPortalToMarriage

I still think a lot of "mental load" stuff is horribly exaggerated as it's just normal life and should just be dealt with by both parties without requiring drama and endless lists. Lists of the work involved to to get ready for parties won't be done as people will be too busy just coming home from work and going to parties, hopefully things will be more streamlined if that makes sense!

You seem to still be misunderstanding my post, even though it's been explained to you multiple times. There was no drama. There was no list. The list only exists here, on this thread, on Mumsnet, because someone asked how to describe mental load. I gave an example.

Yes it is normal life, and yes it should be shared by both parties. That's... the point.

Interesting that you seem to have assumed that I make drama out of things and that I'm exaggerating (despite the fact that I actually downplayed it), but when your husband did it, it was fine and admirable ("my DH was dealing with the mental load"; "I absolutely do accept DH did a lot of work").

I mean, continue to be rude about me if you like, but there seems to be a bit of wonky logic there.

I just describe it as doing all the thinking and all the deciding and yes, I do find it tiring.

I think there's a degree of mental load as a SAHM Vs mental load as a working parent.

A lot of the older generation didnt have any expectations to work, as a woman. The mental load isn't so great when it's all you have to think about. As a SAHM myself, (3dc, one SEN) I think I have a large mental load but it's manageable because I don't need to think about the mental load that comes with a job as well.

I think its all a load of bollocks tbh and just a buzz word for people to throw around similar to 'Life admin'.

Its just life, you just get on with it, of course everyone has to think about stuff and manage stuff and organise stuff, the world would be chaos otherwise.

The things in your previous post? Yes, I can honestly say that. Except for the insurance because DH has a medical condition that means he isn't allowed to drive, so all car related stuff (insurance, MOT etc) obviously is my area. But all house related stuff like utility bills and council tax are left to him as a balance.

However, that doesn't mean I don't think the mental load is real, or that it doesn't predominately fall to women.

It doesn't really matter whether you call it mental load or life admin.

It's not the same as one person just thinking about themselves though. It's about one person carrying that mental load/admin for themselves and others, often many others. Managing, for example, my own appointments and calendar is not really much too onerous. Managing my own and those of four others, naturally is more of a task. And that's just appointments/events.

Of course when you have kids you have to do their thinking and managing for them, Parents have been doing that since the beginning of time, they wouldn't survive otherwise. Like I said its just what non dramatic people call 'Life' and most people just get on with it without needing a name for it.

@ZeroFuchsGiven the point is that generally parents (plural) don't do it, generally one parent, normally mother, does it. Yes it needs doing, yes it gets done, do both parents do it equally, without needing reminding from the other parent that it's needed?

Yes, but to varying degrees.

My mental load as a single parent was far far less. Myself, one DC to think about.

With a DH, usually comes more DC, with us, two more DC, there's so much more. Three times the world book days, three times the innoculations, etc. But then with DH comes a whole new level, whereby there's a whole new family of in-laws, new sets of friends, things to do as a couple. Plus his admin. And without getting into who that load should fall to, I can say that my mental load is 60% DC and 40% other stuff.

@Babdoc I've been that single mum too, did it all myself. Felt the anger that the other parent had none of this. But it still makes me mad that now I'm not single, I've only got 75% of the mental load, because I should have 50%. And when I had 100%, when I decided to say fuck it, it was only me it impacted/ had to deal with the consequences.

I think some of the older generation have forgotten what day to day life with young children is like, because it's a long time ago for them.

I also think they don't understand some of the distinctly modern weight of expectation on parents, as we cannot send our kids out in the morning and tell them to return by sundown as our grandparents and parents did. We can't shove extra kids in the boot of the car for an impromptu trip. Expectations for parties and presents and hen dos and weddings and so on are sky high. There are millions of emails and everyone can always reach you. There is also the financial side. Many of my school friends had a stay at home parent. Now amongst us as adults, none of us can afford to be.

I'd love to ditch modern life and live in a yurt but it's unrealistic. I also have ADHD which makes it all harder.