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Parenting

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Ex taking child to his home country

88 replies

Livingwithex · 16/04/2023 11:29

Ex is going to see his elderly parents in his home country. His taking his dd as well and wants to take my dd. I dont want to say which country as too outing, but what are my rights if he doesnt come back. His ex agreed for their dd to go so Im willing to agree to.
From reading mumsnet I understand there is some convetion/agreement that government would help me if he abducted her. Google is not helping me much.

OP posts:
MermaidMummy06 · 17/04/2023 13:43

Holly03 · 16/04/2023 16:20

Did that mother ever get her children back when her ex took both of them abroad. She was from australia and he kept them with his family. He was going to visit parents and never came back. Do your research on the country but I’d be inclined to say no unless I went and stayed in a hotel near by

Sally Faulkner. No, they haven't come back. And they won't. They're in the middle east somewhere.

Seeing what she went through would be enough to never, ever allow children to be taken if there's even the slightest legal possibility they could not come home.

Tealsofa · 17/04/2023 13:53

Livingwithex · 16/04/2023 16:12

Its not europe.
its a rare country, if i say it, it would be too outing.
1st visits for both kids, his family met his dd once when little.
i have minimal contact with his ex.
he is good dad here, he wouldnt abduct them here coz he wouldnt have anywhere to go.
my dd has a passport already.

he went back once to his country before and very easily found a job. He has lots of family there so yes he wouldnt have reasons to come back to uk if he has his kids with him.

i wont go, its too risky. I would never forgive myself if something happened

Rare country?
Ok

TheLaundryBasket · 17/04/2023 13:57

Mummyoflittledragon · 17/04/2023 13:01

It is infinitesimally easier to reunite a parent with a child if they’re only taken to another part of the British isles. All 4 countries form part of the uk and the law is clear. Not so with other countries even if full signatories of The Hague convention.

Even if taken to the ROI, the ROI government would fully cooperate. Rather different from the example above of Germany. Some other European countries would also be problematic. Op says he’s not from Europe but a small country not on that continent. The costs to repatriate a child from even further afield would spiral m

ROI? Is there a country called ROI? If so, I haven't come across it.

If you mean Ireland, as I assume you do, Ireland, like France or Spain or Italy is an EU Member State which is a signatory to the Hague Convention. Generally speaking, all Hague Convention countries will return children to their State of habitual residence if kidnapped there in breach of the Convention, but the process can be complicated and costly. The process necessarily involves the courts, the views of any Irish (or indeed other) Government at any point in time are entirely irrelevant.

It is worth noting that Ireland (unlike Germany) is a dualist system, and that Children's Rights are expressly protected by the Irish Constitution, so it is theoretically possible that Ireland could refuse to return Irish citizen children to the UK (in breach of the convention) if the Irish courts felt that the British courts wouldn't sufficiently vindicate the rights of those children. I just can't imagine a practical scenario where this might happen given the Convention. A German Court would have a far more difficult time ignoring the convention than an Irish court would, and there are significantly more Irish citizen children ordinarily resident in the UK than there are German citizen children.

I digress, my point was simply that most parents wanting to bring their children to their home country to visit their family want to bring their children on holiday to visit their family. They don't wish to kidnap them.

English law requires that the parent denying permission to travel have good reason to do so. If they don't have good reason a) the courts will rule against them and costs may be awarded against them b) they may hurt their kids by denying them a connection with part of their family and heritage c) their ex may frustrate their future foreign holiday plans which their ex needs to consent to in a tit for tat situation they started.

If the OP is genuinely concerned she should speak to a lawyer.

She shouldn't take advice on something this important from someone who doesn't even know that it's a court process, let alone that there's no country called ROI (and that the Irish courts will reject legal proceedings out of hand if they're addressed to "ROI" because it's not the name of the country).

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

Mars27 · 17/04/2023 14:04

@TheLaundryBasket Official name of Ireland is Republic of Ireland

Ex taking child to his home country
adriftabroad · 17/04/2023 14:13

Do not let this happen.
Please believe me.

2bazookas · 17/04/2023 14:26

snoopyscarp · 17/04/2023 13:10

FGM risk???

Literally wtf is wrong with some people. Even questioning or thinking about letting your ex take your daughter and abducting her is enough to know it's not a good idea?? How bizarre.

YES FGM risk.

Can you imagine, a father who is not hellbent on solo parenting of two girls ; knows his two daughters will be raised in the West by their different mothers BUT... his family's culture believes FGM is in their best interest. His frail elderly parents seek his assurance the western granddaughters will be proper. He sees this as his final input to the girls' lives.

For the ignorant; not all Islamic groups practice FGM, and many non-Islamic groups do, including some Christians, Ethiopian Jews, and followers of certain traditional African religions.

2bazookas · 17/04/2023 14:27

If DD has a passport I'd make sure it was .. unavailable at the last minte.

snoopyscarp · 17/04/2023 14:55

@2bazookas I know; I was asking her if she had thought about FGM. Because that's the first thing I thought of.

TheLaundryBasket · 17/04/2023 15:12

Mars27 · 17/04/2023 14:04

@TheLaundryBasket Official name of Ireland is Republic of Ireland

Seriously? You have a wiki entry in your favour, I have my constitution and the jurisprudence of my Supreme Court in mine.

Ex taking child to his home country
ims0rrydarlingg · 17/04/2023 15:14

Mars27 · 17/04/2023 12:29

@ims0rrydarlingg please stop being so disingenuous. No country in the world gives priority to women's rights over other people's but you cannot compare countries like Saudi Arabia, Iran and Afghanistan where women are not allowed things like driving on their own, opening the door to their own houses and worst of all, denied the right of having an education to the rest of the world.

I understand that some people are protective of their heritage but c'mon, we watch the news and can see what's going on in such countries.

I’m not part of any of the heritages you’ve mentioned FYI.

Women can drive in Saudi Arabia and Iran. I’m not sure about Afghanistan.

If the thread was about women’s rights then we could continue on this topic but it’s not.

chaivanilla · 17/04/2023 19:46

No way on hells earth would I be allowing this. Lost passport last minute should cover it? As in day of departure style ...

Weallgottachangesometime · 17/04/2023 21:26

MermaidMummy06 · 17/04/2023 13:43

Sally Faulkner. No, they haven't come back. And they won't. They're in the middle east somewhere.

Seeing what she went through would be enough to never, ever allow children to be taken if there's even the slightest legal possibility they could not come home.

Oh her situation broke my heart.
I followed her social media though and there does seem to have been some improvement in her contact with them over the Kay year of two though. So terribly sad that their connection to eachother in childhood has been lost.

rosepetals2023 · 29/07/2023 12:28

Know I’m late for this OP, did he end up taking DD in the end?
You need to look up if the country is part of The Hague convention. If not, it’s a risky game.
However if you refuse, he could take you to court and get a specific issue order to get the holiday granted (I was told even if a non Hague convention country they may well grant it).

If the country is part of The Hague convention you could get a prohibited steps order which would mean he would be arrested if he took her out the country without your consent and forced to return her. If not a member of The Hague convention, no point getting one as UK courts would have no jurisdiction to make him return her. It would be a waste of money/aggravate the situation with your X more.

Also take into consideration that some embassies in UK will allow him to obtain a passport of his origin without the mothers consent.

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