Sleep Training 8 Year Old

[janine0187]

Hi there,
ok so basically my daughter has been having problems sleeping in her own bed for years. As she is now 8 years old, I think it is inappropriate her to sleep in my bed every night. This also means that my other half has been sleeping in the guest room for years.
If we are consistent for a few nights, she will give in and fall asleep in her bed eventually but she could wake up again 30 minutes later but if we are lucky she will sleep in her bed a few hours and then come into me. I am okay with that, as long as we have an evening downstairs together without going to bed at 8pm every night. As her brother who is 10 wakes up and can't self sooth either even though he does fall asleep by himself without anyone there.
The problem is any kind of routine break such as sick or holidays or being away will break her routine altogether and she gets angry and frustrated and will put a fight screaming, shaking her bed, leaving her bed etc. This interrupts her brothers sleep who is sleeping across the way. Both room have the door open. If I intend to close the doors there will be war. lol
Any advice greatly appreciated.

At 8 & 10 can't you just sit them down and explain to them that you all need to get good quality sleep so if they wake up they are not to wake you up or come in your room? Do they have special needs?

Agree with this. Unless there's SEN I would just be strict at this point tbh.

Sorry but you need to stop talking about them as if they are babies, they’re really not. Language like ‘self soothe’, sleep training etc can’t be helping. They are well old enough to be told, not tip toed around.

I'd have to agree. Just tell them to stay in their bed. Maybe offer some kind of incentive if they stay in their bed for a whole week?

I think it is more that she has separation anxiety to be honest. She knows how to push our buttons. And on the topic of tip toeing around the house, thats probably what our life has been the past 10 years. They easily wake up because of it.
There is nothing wrong with her any time of day. Only when it comes to bed time and having to sleep by herself she will become a different child. We have tried everything at this stage. And regarding self soothing for the 10 year old. He will cry and get a panic attack and scream.

Yep, I agree. When I first read your post I could have easily believed you were talking about babies. Your 8 and 10 year old children are perfectly capable of falling asleep in their own rooms, they've just never been properly taught how to.

I have a different perspective- I don’t think you’ve done anything wrong. This sounds like they’re distressed in the night if alone. Do you know why this might be? Have they suffered any trauma?

Might it be SEND- specifically autism? My daughter is autistic and she has only been able to sleep more easily in teen years, and has things like music on all night, LED lights, dog sleeping in her room.

I agree. Slightly stunned that they’re eight and ten years.

So maybe the question is how do you teach them to? My six year old asks one of us to stay with her till she falls asleep and will call us to sleep in her room when she wakes up at night. She gets nightmares and is scared to be on her own. Following this thread with interest.

But they are old enough to talk to. You dont sleep train at this age, that is just babying them. You explain to them that you all need to get sleep that isn't interrupted.

Do you have any idea why they are so anxious as at this point you need to address this. Are they receiving input from CAMHS? Or any other mental health services?
How is your mental health?

Op I can kind of see my life like this is years to come.
My son won't even walk down the hall without me or DH!
He goes to bed absolutely fine but always end sup in my bed at some point through the night. I am hoping he may stop this when I put the 15 month old in his room too so he's not alone.
Obviously I don't know if it will work but I'm going to hope it does.
I think if it doesn't I will resort to taking him back to bed every single time - you cannot give in.

Do they share a room? Maybe they'd like that

This is insanity. How have you gone on 10 years living like this?!

time for some tough love. Buy yourself some earplugs and brace for a few rough nights. You should have done this 5 years ago!

At 6 you could try gradually removing yourself. So if you normally sit next to the bed you could start using the tine to fold up laundry so you are in the room but not right next to her. Then after a while you could start to pop in and out of the room putting clothes away where they belong. A week or so later you could say ill read you two stories go down and do some washing up and then come back uo after 5 minutes. You could gradually increase the time you are away.
If she wakes in the night tuck her in and giver her a kiss but leave before she falls back to sleep.

I would chat to them both about the importance of sleep and then come up with a plan together. Ask them what suggestions they have. Possibly look at a reward system. If it can be linked to sleep (or lack of it) all the better - so if you are too tired to have days out on the weekend then set a target which, when they achieve it, you can have a special day out.

They are old enough to start taking responsibility for getting good sleep.

At 8 years old you should easily be able to solve this with a conversation. SHE'S 8 YEARS OLD. You are talking as though shes a toddler. I can't quite get my head around it tbh.

My 7yo sometimes has nightmares. One of us goes in, calms her down and gives her cuddles and reassurance. Once she's OK we tell her to read until she falls back to sleep and then we go back to bed. She always reads at bedtime and it helps her to get to sleep if she's struggling. Could you suggest something like that? It could be reading, playing white noise, writing a diary, anything that forms a habit and can be a sleep cue.

I've no idea why they are like this. To be honest I think they both have been babied too much over the years. They are smart enough to notice and say that I am the strict one and daddy is the more easy going one who let's things slide. There's no trauma whatsoever. They just their parents as their comfort I guess.
As I said theres nothing wrong with them any time of day so definitely not autistic. My 8 year old is very wise and independent actually

Then they are clearly having you on... they are wise and smart but you admit they have been babied too much. That there, is your problem... they know you'll cave in each time and it works. So nothing changes.

Change has to come from you. With firm boundaries. They go to sleep alone and stay in their beds alone all night. And that's the end of it. You need to get tough with them on this one or nothing will change.

Yes my 10 year old has gone to a therapist up until recently and is now finished. He is an anxious person in general. He couldn't sleep a year ago because of some scary stuff his friends told him that happens at night. Believed them more than us. That's the way he is. Anyway, that is solved and he sleeps by himself again, with the door open.
My 8 year old has been attached to me since she was born to be honest. She would only warm up to play with others 2 hours in when she was 2 years old. I went on until she started school.

I don’t understand why neurotypical children of that age would WANT to be in bed with their mum though?
why does your husband get the guest room by the way? You’ve presumably had 10 years of crap sleep?

We have a very structured bed time routine with screens off 1 hour before bed too. My 8 year old did take interest in reading in the last few weeks. It does calm her down a little bit. So we will continue with it.

I would take time to make a really clear and thorough plan. If they are distressed at night or going to sleep, you’ll need to think through how to gradually support them to make this change- for example, introducing a bedtime routine. What to do at night if they wake- giving them supports that they can use, such as music/lights. Not punishing them if they find it difficult; praising them for making the changes. See how you can gradually discuss and set out the plan, then gradually introduce it.

At this point if you aren't prepared just tell them straight to stay in their beds and not disturb you because you need to sleep then I would look at having a few sessions with a psychologist. They could give you some strategies to help you manage their anxiety.

When DS was younger, we listened to audiobooks on my phone together at bedtime, with my lying on top of his bed. He'd gradually drop off and stay relaxed and sleep like a log until the morning.

I am fine not to cave in but to have them screaming at the top of their lungs and nearly having a panic attack is not good for their health either. I know its a way of getting us to come back in their room. We just pushed this problem out year by year. Should have been addressed a long time ago. Absolutely.
The 8 year old will get out of her bed all the time especially if I was to close the door

Yes my 10 year old has gone to a therapist up until recently and is now finished. He is an anxious person in general. He couldn't sleep a year ago because of some scary stuff his friends told him that happens at night. Believed them more than us. That's the way he is. Anyway, that is solved and he sleeps by himself again, with the door open.

My 8 year old has been attached to me since she was born to be honest. She would only warm up to play with others 2 hours in when she was 2 years old. I went on until she started school.

I would definitely look into autism and do some further reading beyond nhs resources.