Sleep Training 8 Year Old

[janine0187]

Hi there,
ok so basically my daughter has been having problems sleeping in her own bed for years. As she is now 8 years old, I think it is inappropriate her to sleep in my bed every night. This also means that my other half has been sleeping in the guest room for years.
If we are consistent for a few nights, she will give in and fall asleep in her bed eventually but she could wake up again 30 minutes later but if we are lucky she will sleep in her bed a few hours and then come into me. I am okay with that, as long as we have an evening downstairs together without going to bed at 8pm every night. As her brother who is 10 wakes up and can't self sooth either even though he does fall asleep by himself without anyone there.
The problem is any kind of routine break such as sick or holidays or being away will break her routine altogether and she gets angry and frustrated and will put a fight screaming, shaking her bed, leaving her bed etc. This interrupts her brothers sleep who is sleeping across the way. Both room have the door open. If I intend to close the doors there will be war. lol
Any advice greatly appreciated.

Thanks. Yes, we had this rule in place too. She sleeps in her bed and she is not allowed to come near my room until after midnight. Worked well for a while until she got a stomach bug. Any kind of routine change will upset the bedtime routine basically. She finds it hard to get up in the mornings all the time because she fights so long going to sleep. And just like her daddy she is getting hot (hyperhidrosis) in bed all the time which is why she sleeps on these cold pillows every single night to be able to settle. But even beside me she is too warm because I generate heat under the blanket too. Which is even more so why she should sleep in her own bed.
So the talk will be had this evening.

I have tried getting this out of her. She finds it hard to express her emotions which is why she is seeing someone for that now. All the time it has been the curtains but i think that is just an excuse. I changed them and same problem. There is literally nothing wrong with her room. In my opinion its too bright. She has an LED light on underneath her bed, the lamp is on in the hall way with the door open. One of them will have to go but the hall way light has always been on in case one of us need to go to the bathroom.

Yeah I think so. Thanks.

I would swap the light for a red night light. So it's not interfering with melatonin production.
Also what time does she go to bed?

She has been on Melatonin too while you mention it.

Couple of things:
Hallway: we have lights in our upstairs hall that are rechargeable motion sensor ones (usb, either magnet strip or screwed in place, well cheap on the A-word) which negates the need for the light to be on permanently and is a godsend given electric prices now
bedroom: when our DD was learning to put herself to sleep (ok much younger age) we left a song that soothed her on repeat on the cd player. Once she was sound asleep we popped in and turned it off.

she also went through a phase of nightmares because of idiotsfriends who told her all about the monsters. It got so bad with no sleep that we went to see the GP. He talked to her and then 'prescribed' a special spray that could be used on the doors to stop them. In reality it was water, lavender oil and a bit of really fine glitter, that she helped make. Took a while but that passed.

My last suggestion, and it isn't the best, is that if she comes in to your room, you take her back to hers. If she comes back to your bed, remove yourself to the spare room with your husband. If she joins you, she is put back in her own bed.

Unfortunately this is something that is likely to get worse before it gets better. And if they are really making that much noise, you might need to warn the neighbours in advance. You don't want them thinking something is really wrong and calling the police. (although at this point the police turning up because of how they are behaving at bedtime might actually shock them into seeing how badly they are behaving)-

I think a reward chart, maybe do it it stages? Can you sit in a chair in her room reading until she falls asleep, then progress the next night to outside the room until you are downstairs?
Maybe choose some new lights to go around her bed, a new Teddy or something and have a chat with her. It's going to be difficult she's 8, that's a long time sleeping with you, so I don't think just telling her stay in her bed will work.

I strongly recommend audio books. My oldest has always had sleep issues and slept in my bed (or in a pull out bed next to me) for at least half the night most nights until she was nearly 7 when I finally had to put a stop for it because I was pregnant and baby was about to be born and would be sleeping next to my bed. She fell asleep to audiobooks and if (when) she woke in the night I'd put the book back on (eventually she started putting it back on herself when she woke up and stopped waking me up).

For bedtimes I did a clear routine with a reward system for following the whole bedtime routine every night including going to sleep by herself.

@janine0187 my daughter was put on melatonin too at age 4.5yo but I didn't find it did all that much as her sleep issues were more psychological. Sounds like you're in the same boat to me.

Well she hasnt slept in my bed for 8 years. She has been in my bed for the last year permanently. Before that we were sitting on the floor in front of her room until she would fall asleep. We took turns but we could actually go downstairs and watch TV. She'd come into my room at night time but wasnt an issue then. Reward chart will work temporarily but when the chart is filled she will probably go back to her normal self. We have tried literally everything including a sleep therapist. So at this stage it has to be tough love.

Same it doesnt help us either.

I have/had two terrible sleepers. For one of mine, we broke the habit by camping in their room. Every time they woke in the night, they would see one of us on the camp bed. After a week, we slowly withdrew from the room...pillows in the camp bed to look like us sleeping then just leaving the camp bed etc. By this stage, they weren't waking in the night which was probably the habit we had to break more than the separation issues. Each night of staying in their own bed in that time would gain a small reward as positive reinforcement.
Both kids not NT though, but the habit of night wakings finally broke and they slept through.

I dont think there is any method we have no tried. Sitting on the floor beside her room, she will fall asleep eventually. Also the next stage we tried according to a sleep therapist we had this time last year, checking her every 5 mins and putting her back in her room without any eye contact or talking to make it boring also worked.
Once we are consistent again, this will all work, then it is into whether we should close the bedroom door once asleep and also the same steps have to be performed when she wakes up at night.

What about using a yoto player beside their beds? They have a radio station which plays really nice calm music at night and if that was on it would also cover some household noises.

My 8yo is slightly better but still has some sleep issues. We removed her dummy at 2 and since then she always wakes in the night (had slept through previously).

She comes in some nights but not others. How do you stop a kid waking up? I hear all the above advice but I'm not keen on saying she's not allowed in to mine. What if she's genuinely scared?

OP I agree they old enough to start a proper conversation but, solidarity!

I have one niece who grew out of it at ten!! Others all slept through as babies. All kids are different.

This. Anyone above 2 or 3 surely just needs to be told to go to bed?

Separation anxiety is something babies get, not 8 year olds. Be firmer

Have you given her techniques for falling back to sleep?

If she's anxious, then it might be that she needs some methods to fall back to sleep so her brain doesn't fill with anxious thoughts. i.e. thinking of things beginning with each letter of the alphabet, or imagining her favourite possible garden and what things it would have in it, or other similar ideas.

The suggestion of audiobooks is also a good one - I still quite like to listen to an audiobook as I go to sleep. Depending if she'd be able to reset it herself you should look at teaching her the other methods too.

No techniques really. I am sitting at the door for the next few nights until she falls asleep. She is a mid sleeper and we usually just wind down underneath it with a book. The bedtime routine couldn't be better but the actual going to bed I don't know.
I have to be firm and not mad or angry at her. It's obviously bothering her to sleep by herself