Sleep Training 8 Year Old

[janine0187]

Hi there,
ok so basically my daughter has been having problems sleeping in her own bed for years. As she is now 8 years old, I think it is inappropriate her to sleep in my bed every night. This also means that my other half has been sleeping in the guest room for years.
If we are consistent for a few nights, she will give in and fall asleep in her bed eventually but she could wake up again 30 minutes later but if we are lucky she will sleep in her bed a few hours and then come into me. I am okay with that, as long as we have an evening downstairs together without going to bed at 8pm every night. As her brother who is 10 wakes up and can't self sooth either even though he does fall asleep by himself without anyone there.
The problem is any kind of routine break such as sick or holidays or being away will break her routine altogether and she gets angry and frustrated and will put a fight screaming, shaking her bed, leaving her bed etc. This interrupts her brothers sleep who is sleeping across the way. Both room have the door open. If I intend to close the doors there will be war. lol
Any advice greatly appreciated.

You tell me. I dont know.
I don't have crap sleep because once she's in my bed she sleeps. I sleep my normal 6 to 8 hours.
Hes not in there 10 years. More like 5 or 6 max. But it's mainly because there's no room beside me with her in it too

Do not ‘get tough’. They are not necessarily manipulative- they may well be in genuine distress. Your son sounds really distressed.

I really think you need to have them assessed. This doesn’t sound right.

Give them the tools they need to calm down themselves. Do a few sessions with a therapist, self fund if you can the nhs waiting lists are long. Teach them techniques to calm down (agree with pp's, at 8 and 10 it's not "self soothe"). Put things in place to create a bedtime routine - no screens for an hour, warm bath etc.
tell them what they can do if they can't sleep - eg listen to an audio book etc.
Then give them consequences for their behaviour - reward when they stay in bed ... and remove privileges for coming down.
Maybe offer them a sleepover with one of their friends if they can do it.

These kids definitely aren't neurotypical. How do they cope at school, OP?

Just solidarity here. My 8yr old DS is very confident and independent during the day, but he cannot and will not sleep in his own bed all night. Not helped by the fact he's on a loft room which can't have a door on it. The rule is he is allowed to join us if he wakes after midnight. Sometimes on a school night he will be left to go to sleep at 7.30 and come down to our room every 10-20 mins until around 10 when he finally falls asleep. He still comes to us in the middle of the night though.I really worry about he must be sleep deprived.
I've tried so so many times to break this pattern but it's never worked. I really thought he'd have outgrown it by now.
It doesn't matter how much he will agree not to do it anymore in the daytime, come night time he's back to his old tricks.
Anyway, you're not alone. These days I have a short afternoon nap so I can cope better and have my fingers crossed he will decide for himself to stop it soon.

At this stage it wouldn't be appropriate for her to share a room with her 10 year old brother. He needs his own space.

10 year old has already been assessed. Nothing wrong with him.

If you're going to go down the discipline route, a sleep clock might help her understand when she can and can't get up. If she wakes she'll know she only has, say, 2 little moons to go, and naturally fall back to sleep while she's waiting! Good luck!

Can your DD articulate to you why she finds it so difficult to stay in her room? Is it too quiet, too dark/light?

I've no idea why they are like this. To be honest I think they both have been babied too much over the years.

So you do know why they’re like this. You’ve both babied them. I mean, that was clear from the infant terminology you used. Sleep train, self-soothe, etc.

I’m one for tough love, which I daresay you’re not. I’d buy two night lights and a bolt for my door.

I dont know what OP is. They cope like any other normal child in school. In fact they are doing a lot better academically wise than others in their class.

I do think a proper 1:1 chat with each of them is needed here.

Really try to find out why they are waking, why they are distressed, what are they afraid of?

I think you need to treat them as individuals as I don't think one solution would work.

Depending on what they say you could try things like a clock and a time at which they can leave their room. A sign on your door that says you're there and reassured them you've not gone anywhere. Rewards for 'good' nights

Oh come on OP, you need to be honest with yourself. If you were fine not to cave in then this problem would have been resolved years ago. Every time your 8yo sleeps in your bed you are caving in, and you have said that's every night. I agree that you need to get tough with her about this. It does seem like the issue with your son is different and needs handling more carefully, and at least he actually sleeps in his own bed. But you need to get tough with the 8yo.

At this age I would go for a serious chat and some serious bribery. Is there something she'd like? I did a bedtime tokens and reward system for my daughter which I can share if you want. But bear in mind she was 4.5yo. Some of the principles about a family meeting and her setting the 'rules' might apply.

Sounds like you’ve decided there’s nothing ‘wrong’ with them. (Which by the way, there’s nothing wrong with neurodiverse children, their brains just work differently)

I would very much argue that there is something “wrong” with children who are behaving like this at their ages.

Maybe some incentives? Sticker chart with a reward? Money? Extra screen time? For staying in their own bed all night and not disturbing you.

If there is a problem with getting off to sleep, could they listen to audiobooks, podcasts or gentle music?

None of this adds up really though. If they are totally NT and there’s no previous trauma or something that’s giving them such major anxiety around bed then they really should be behaving this way. You do talk about them like they’re a pair of toddlers.

*should NOT be behaving this way obviously

On the bright side, another few years and you’ll be able to bribe them with driving lessons!

🫢😆

This. I'm proudly neurodiverse and woke regularly calling for my mum until maybe 12/13. She handled it very well back then and made me feel safe settled in my own bed but if she'd allowed me into hers it would've been game over.

My neurodiverse son loves his bed, we made damn sure he did!

I disagree these children have to be ND.

I think they've never been strictly encouraged to stay in their own rooms and they now have a huge sleep crux and anxiety.

Many adults end up in terrible condependent relationships - these children are displaying emotional immaturity and are anxious (just like some adult women stay witj terrible men for fear of being alone) not all those grown women are ND.

Of course there is nothing wrong with them. I explained before that they behave like normaly children around anyone else other than their parents. It is because we are their safe place and they know how to push our buttons. I dont deny that. Both have slept better when they were younger. The 10 year old was a better sleeper when he was a baby/toddler to be honest. The waking etc only became an issue with him in the last 3 years or so.
8 year old has never been a great sleeper since the day she was born so no surprise there. However, as a baby/toddler she did sleep in her cot all night. She had no choice, couldnt go anywhere. Different situation now when you can get out of bed and do whatever you want.

Yeah that is going to have to be the next step.