No wonder babies don't sleep! *lighthearted *

[Purple89]

Is it just me or are the safe sleep guidelines literally everything babies hate?...

A flat uncomfortable hard surface
On their back - not cosied up on side or tum
Far away from cuddles with mum and dad
Temperate kept cool, not toasty and warm
Sleeping space wide open and barren rather than snug and cosy with bumpers
No comfy pillows or soft toys

When you think about it, it's a wonder babies sleep at all!

This may have suddenly occurred to me at 2.30am last night.... 😆

I often thought that looking at my newborn in their Moses basket and thinking about the environment they’re used to in the womb. I also don’t think many adults sleep like that on their backs.

I always think that’s the point: cold babies cry, hot babies die; SIDS is supposed to be babies going into a deep sleep; failure to thrive from not taking on enough milk – all deftly solved by making the little buggers cold, uncomfortable and sad.

It does make me laugh though that postnatal wards are hotter than Hades, all the babies have hats on, and midwives are forever tucking them into the mums’ beds and wedging them with rolled up towels and such – breaking every rule in the book but the babies sleep! It’s when you get home the problems begin…

I always swaddled mine even though it wasn't recommended as I found it the best way for then to settle. The guidelines had changed between having my eldest and fourth child, but the health visitor just told me to do it safely.

I read a book called Three In A Bed by Deborah Jackson when i was first pregnant 30+ years ago. I also grew up on a farm and watched babies snuggling up with their mothers, and decided that this approach was for me. I never regretted it.
I've just downloaded the book to see whether much has been changed to allow for scientific research on safe sleeping.

It's interesting as a discussion. Who knows if the current explosion of adolescent mental health difficulties could be caused by feelings of cold and abandonment in infancy? These things are being researched all the time and co-sleeping within appropriate parameters has only recently been deemed safe again

It's a discussion forum. I'm chucking it out there is all. It might be something that comes up later is on, is all I'm saying.
I slept with all my kids, and as per pp, they were also swaddled and wore hats in hospital. It feels much more natural- we're mammals after all. I appreciate that overheating has been proved to be a danger, I'm just musing on whether feeling cold or unsnuggled might, one day, turn out to impact on child wellbeing. That's all.
I'm not trying to change anybody's mind, I was just adding my thoughts to a light hearted thread.

This is true! It sometimes seemed like DC1 was determined to kill herself 😩

I was also thinking, at a similar time of the night, how wonderful it would be if it was completely safe for babies to fall asleep on you while you also sleep. What a vast improvement it would make to so many people.

Instead I was shhhhhing and patting away trying desperately to recreate the deep sleep the baby was in until I moved him!

@SalmonKnicks who are the eminent people in the field? I was under the impression infant sleeping was has been pretty under researched. There are lots of correlational studies which give rise to the advice against it, and the risk profile is certainly compelling but given that something like 70% of the world co-sleep with children and governments are moving more towards an emphasis on safe-co sleeping I would suggest it far from settled science. Or am I missing something? Happy to be corrected

100% agree 😂, maybe it’s a ploy to make sure women don’t enjoy the early infancy stage too much so they are ready to go back to work once mat leave finishes

I'm with you OP. There's no way I'd sleep well freezing cold and a rock hard piece of foam.

This is interesting for the for the folk debating what "eminent" researchers think:

podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-midwives-cauldron/id1523178579?i=1000599283001

I have thought this might be it. I know realistically it's not but at three am I was wondering if they just try to make parenthood as hard as they can. Currently transitioning ds to big cot from Moses basket and he headbutts the bars . Bumpers would fix the problem but apparently not allowed.

I’m on maternity leave and watching a LOT of Grey’s Anatomy while DS goes on his marathon boobathons and there’s an episode where Alex sleeps all night in a chair with a preemie baby asleep on his chest; when the scene began I thought it was going to be an awful tragic one but of course, the baby was hooked up to monitors and lots of other people were around. So the answer is it’s OK to have a baby sleep on you and go to sleep if you’re a good-looking TV doctor. It’s that whole “it takes a village” thing – babies are set up perfectly to be raised in a communal fashion where they could sleep in a sling on anyone while the mother got some rest, or sleep on the mother while she slept and someone else kept a close eye, or the mother didn’t get any sleep but everyone in the commune did the cooking, cleaning, and playing boring imaginary games with the older DC. The problem is less the stupid babies and more stupid society, that expects us to have a baby sleeping on us and make dinner and pretend to be Captain Barnacles, while also snapping back into our pre-baby shape, making sure to have sex so DH doesn’t have an affair with his secretary, and simultaneously go back to work full time as a strong role model for career women while at the same time being a SAHM for nurturing. No room for sleep in that scenario!

When Ds was newborn in hospital, they had a large fluffy duvet, folded in 4 so a huge thick pile, then piled into of 2 hr old baby inside a little Moses basket size crib on wheels. He was also given a baby pillow, and a hat with tie on straps whilst he was sleeping.
When he didn’t sleep, he was wrapped in in a giant muslin. Then swaddled in said giant duvet and tucked in next to me in bed, between home and a wall.
It was May, and boiling

@bussteward Aw, I remember watching that episode on maternity leave and crying my eyes out #hormones 😂

Thanks for this. Just downloaded it on Spotify

Gosh this is so true! And the midwives did this on the ward I stayed on too!

Temperature not temperate! I'm blaming sleep deprivation...

Ah that's interesting, I'll have to check it out!

Of course, I just hadn't realised that those things also coincide with a pretty uncomfortable night's sleep!

Thanks for sharing - I agree, there are still so many unknowns in this area.

@Locsup183 DS is 11 weeks and I’m up to season 10 already. Every weigh-in they’re like “Wow, you must be dedicated to feeding!” Me, shifty-eyed: yes, it’s the… feeding I care about. Would love to move from the sofa and turn off the TV, but alas.

YANBU at all OP, I thought this multiple times when my DC were newborns!

You get all the safe sleep stuff thrown at you non-stop from the moment they’re born (understandably) but also there’s all the the guilt tripping around sleep training and letting them cry.

I remember even