No one understands

[bluebellaa]

I'm really not expecting anyone on MN to understand, I just really need to vent and I've pretty much lost most of my friends.

DD is 10 months old and has never, ever once slept longer than 3 hours at night. 3 hours is actually only applicable to when she was a newborn, now it's 1.5 - 2 hours max. Subsequently I have literally not had more than 3 hours of unbroken sleep since before she was born, and often times I'm roused up to 10 times a night. I refuse to sleep train for multiple reasons, including personal experience, it being inappropriate for DD's temperament, and the fact that I'm aware a lot of her nightly disturbance is due to discomfort from gas and reflux (stemming from a habitual poor latch that I can do absolutely nothing about at this age).

DD is also (E)BF alongside solids. She has multiple allergies that I therefore also have to avoid, which have caused symptomatic deficiencies and I have lost a lot of weight from pre-pregnancy. I used to be an amateur bodybuilder and I am now very skinny and saggy. Again for multiple personal reasons that I won't go into here, formula is not an option and neither is weaning off of BF at this stage.

DP works very long hours multiple times a week and has educational commitments alongside working, thus he doesn't spend anywhere near as much time with DD as I do. DD therefore has developed very strong separation anxiety from me and only being consoled by me. Hearing her screaming like someone has broken her leg because she only wants me and trying to ignore the instinct to be with her ruins my mental health.

PIL are around but, to be honest, I don't trust them. I have witnessed how they treat our nieces away from their mum; the way they have been with DD at times (purposely trying to scare her and make her cry at 5 months old); having no concept of how to safely offer solid foods (giving blueberries whole without squashing them); putting DD in her car seat in a pram suit... I could go on. Frankly I do not feel at all comfortable leaving DD with them when I'm due to go back to work, and they are our only option in the way of childcare.

Our future is (and has been since before DD) been banking on the success of an 'entrepreneurial venture' should we say. With the changes to the economy in the last year, failure to realise the plans I've been working on for the past 3 years now will mean we will be forced to sell our house.

As a result I spend every opportunity (DD's naps, some time when she goes to bed, and whenever DP is around to look after her) working towards this goal. I do nothing for myself because I am putting every ounce of energy into this project for the sake of our future. I don't even see friends, hence why I'm posting here rather than messaging them.

The pressure is gigantic, and the combination of it all is causing me to start to crack. I am terrified that I will let my family and myself down. I am equally upset that I am watching time slip away from me and am not finding myself able to be present and enjoy watching my daughter grow up.

I'm not going to give up, on any of it, but tonight after fighting an overtired 10 month old to get to sleep and DP being away, I really needed to let it out to help me straighten my thoughts.

Appreciate if you've read the whole way through, thank you. X

📣

Agree.

Why can't she take formula? Why can't you try sleep training?

I hear you, @bluebellaa .

Like you, my DC seems utterly opposed to sleeping through. I don't think they've ever slept through, actually. They're one now, and it's exhausting. I've found safer co-sleeping (using the guidelines) to be a lifesaver, as it means we're right next to each other, cutting down on time per wake and making it easier for both of us to get back to sleep. Things have been gradually improving over the last few weeks, they're managing to sleep for 3-4 hours at a time now, which feels so much better than it was!

Sleep training hasn't been for us. I don't think extinction would be a particularly good approach for us. That's not been an easy decision to make, as it significantly increases our workload, but I remain confident that it's the right decision for us.

DC has been primarily breastfed and I stand by that decision. It's been the right choice for our family. Fed is best, and everyone needs to do what works for their circumstances. Don't feel pressured to change if you don't think it'd be right. As DC has started dropping feeds, it's been easier to create time for myself during the day.

We've had a serious case of wanting me in preference to pretty much anything or anyone else, too. It's very hard work and a huge responsibility!

With limited family support and nobody available for babysitting etc (elderly relatives, living far away from parents, DC has allergies so needs caregivers to be aware and experienced), my absolute sanity saver has been nursery. I don't know if that might be an option for you. DC goes 3 days per week and 1 of those is a day I don't work. On that day, I come home, get 4-5 hours good quality sleep, and then have the energy to get jobs done, go food shopping, etc before pick-up time. Nursery's also great at helping DC realise people other than me can be Not Terrible.

Hang in there, we'll get through this!

Some babies can't have conventional formula due to medical reasons, eg allergies, and some babies either reject or can't tolerate prescription fornulas. Honestly, I don't think I would want to drink them either, they can smell and taste like rotten potatoes.

Just as we shouldn't judge or criticise someone for giving formula, we shouldn't judge someone for not giving it.

Some people, myself included, don't think that extinction-based approaches would be helpful for our DCs in terms of modifying behaviour. Everyone needs to make their own decisions based on their circumstances and the available information. Not sleep training is just as valid an approach as choosing to sleep train.

I'm not the OP, just someone who's made similar decisions to primarily breastfeed and to not sleep train. Making those decisions doesn't automatically mean I have a martyr complex, just that I made somewhat different but still vaid choices which have been based on my family's circumstances and my views on attachment and behavioural theories.

Something I haven't actually mentioned so far is that DD doesn't need help falling asleep initially. She will fall asleep for naps and, as she's gotten older, more and more often at night. She also stirs during her naps and remains asleep for 2 hours or so. And, even on the odd occasion, will do the same at night. I don't believe she has an inability to fall asleep independently (I know she doesn't because she does it 2 or 3 times a day). This is why I believe all of the gentler sleep training tips we've tried have wound up causing significantly more distress, because there's actually a specific issue (such as wind or reflux) causing her discomfort, rather than her just not being able to link cycles.

Honestly, I think this is normal and not necessarily indicative of a problem. Sleep trainers like to tell you that "linking sleep cycles" is a thing and ability (or not) to fall asleep independently is something which can be learned or taught, when I don't think that's quite the case, I think that babies will fall asleep when they have the right combination of tiredness (sleep pressure), sleepiness (circadian rhythm linked), and they are comfortable and calm. Things that might make them not calm might be that they don't know where you are or they are used to using a boob/dummy or bodily contact, your body heat/smell/heartbeat etc to regulate. Yes, there are of course elements of habit in there but I do think most of the stuff about "sleep associations" is fearmongering to sell you a book or today an online course.

Sleep training claims to "teach" babies to fall asleep on their own but I think really it's just a case of getting them used to their sleep environment so that they are not totally startled when they wake up and find themselves there. And of course some babies will be more responsive to this than others.

To me though this is the wider situation that's unsustainable - you say that you're working on this project, plus caring for DD without DH being able to give much support, which would be exhausting for anybody. But you don't want to go back to work full time because that would just be paying for childcare - well - you might want to see that as temporary, or see this (sleep) situation as temporary and take a bit more of a pause from all those other projects, before you make yourself ill.

I don't think it's sooo helpful to take a blanket approach to yes/no on "sleep training" because the term is so vague now that it doesn't really tell you what you are or aren't comfortable doing. I mean some people consider a routine to be sleep training, and having a routine is hardly on the same level as leaving babies crying for hours?

I know that personally I would not do extinction methods. Nobody recommends pure extinction in the UK anyway (close the door and ignore all crying) - many people suggest methods based on graduated extinction (leave to cry for scheduled intervals). I won't do this myself as despite reading lots about it, I've never found an explanation for it that makes any sense to me - it's based in behaviourism which I don't think is useful. But from approx 15/16 months (possibly a little earlier) I have found it possible to encourage DC gently to do longer stretches in their cot. I've done various approaches with each child as I mentioned before, but never anything that felt non-responsive. But, as discussed, it may be that even "gentle" techniques won't help if she is suffering discomfort from her wind etc.

Op I know some of what you're going through as I completed my masters on mat leave. It definitely makes the no sleep harder as you feel stressed about performing in other areas too. I too lost loads of weight as I had to hold baby for naps and we could only meet up with friends for a walk because of lockdown. There was just never time to eat properly somehow.

As for the sleep 8-10 months is peak separation anxiety and a typical sleep regression time. sarahockwell-smith.com/2015/11/18/what-the-heck-goes-wrong-sleep-wise-at-8-10-months/

I can only say that it will improve in terms of sleep and separation anxiety on it's own. But you can do stuff to nudge it that way too if you want to. Once baby is over 1 you can night wean gently which will help the sleep. Right now you can do stuff to help the separation anxiety such as leaving the room and coming back again after 30 seconds. Letting other people have baby for a few mins and going somewhere else in the house then coming back. They eventually understand you go and then come back.

Do you ever give yourself a break and just have a big cry? I think that is really cathartic.

You're in a really hard stage of life right now. You're doing amazing. It will pass.

Is your dd on meds for reflux? If it's still causing such issues with sleep you can ask for her to be referred to the paediatrician.

Also working to pay for childcare is what a lot of mums end up doing, the childcare costs would be shared with your partner though.

You can't work and look after a baby, especially one that doesn't sleep well, without loosing your mind.

Same view here

You are fixed in your current situation but you don't sound open to changing it
Even implying not to suggest something...

Somethings got to give op....like you've said or your MH will suffer

Nothing changes if nothing changes.
You won’t change anything OP for whatever “personal” reasons you have. So suffer on. Literally! There is nothing else to be said.

OP I understand.
Rant away.
I’ve been where you are now and I totally totally get it.
How I would love to sit down for a coffee and a chat with you because actually, I’ve never met another person in life who has been in this very situation.

I won’t bore you, but I was in this position until my child slept the whole night for the first time at aged 5 and was at full time school.

I also get your reasoning for not doing the (well meaning) things that are suggested.
As you say, for some, absolutely nothing works or helps or cures or makes even the smallest difference.
Rant away, I get you.

It really does sound hard op.
However the only way things will get better is if you change things.....
I have 6 kids and the things that have actually worked are-
Sleep training
Night weaning
Changing to bottle feeding (doesn't necessarily help sleep but gives you the chance for a break but to honest at 10 months they do t need milk in the night)
Co sleeping to a certain degree but very much depend on the baby

I can’t offer any advice about the sleep/ allergies issues, but wanted to comment on your statement about only working to pay childcare. I agree with this comment that often work only just covers childcare costs, but people go back to work anyway. It may feel depressing working for only £50-100 ‘profit’ a month (as I did at one point) but I knew it would only be temporary until we were eligible for the funded hours.

Is there anyway to reduce childcare costs such as working compressed hours? Have you worked out how much it would cost using tax-free childcare, where you get a contribution from the government (assuming you’re in the UK)?

Given your comments about your PIL, I definitely wouldn’t use them for childcare. They sound awful.

Gripe water each night and at any time he is actually truly awake in the night helps my second born. Wind seems to be less uncomfortable with it. I also try to only feed every 3 hours so any wake ups in between are dealt with by sshing and patting. He doesn't need fed for calories any more often than that so why risk putting more air into him. (Don't take offence at this. It's my reasoning for my own child not advice for yours) He also has a bit of a poor latch and an inability to burp unless awake, relaxed and happy - not a usual occurrence at night!

I've been there with a premature baby, milk allergies, reflux etc. Days and nights were a blur of puking and screaming. Oh and she would not go for a nap ever! Every feed I had to sit upright with her for 45 minutes due to her reflux, so nights were spent more awake than asleep. I was sole carer (DH worked long hours) with no family nearby as I moved to where DH lived. It was brutal. But it passed. When you're in the moment it's all consuming, then add in your added pressures and no wonder you feel the way you do. But it will pass. I wish someone had told me that at the time!
If you're able to, do something just for you every day, even if it's just reading for 5 minutes, playing a song that you love. It's important to remember who you are in all of this.
For me, things improved when DD started walking and being more mobile. It settled her reflux issues, plus by then she needed less milk so fewer allergy issues. Now she's a happy and thriving almost 10 year old and those days seem like a lifetime ago, yet at the same time, like it was yesterday.
Be kind to yourself, you will get through this x

It's hard to know if you posted just to get things off your chest or for advice. Both valid. If for advice, there is sleep training and then there is sleep training. There is the Jay Gordon method for night weaning etc which involves tears as it is a change for baby but you are there to comfort them. So you could look at more gentle methods of changing sleep habits (which is what I have done both times) but none of them are cry free. When baby is 12 months, I'd recommend a comforter for separation anxiety. Has helped my dc.

I worked just to pay for childcare for over two years (from the joint pot).
God it saved my mental health. And the power balance in our relationship. And my pension now looks great. Even more important if you're not married?
I figured babies wants didn't trump mine. Twenty years on and never a single regret. All bonded just fine.

OP, I sympathise completely. Ignore everyone saying you’re a martyr or that you don’t want to change anything. How you parent is your choice. DS was similar and I would never have ‘sleep trained’, it would have broken my heart. We found co-sleeping helped but the key for us was cranio-sacral osteopathy. DS had a traumatic birth and it wasn’t until the cranio-sacral osteopathy that we realised his latch issue was to do with things being out of alignment due to the birth. For us, it was a turning point within days. It is worth pushing through with what you believe if you’re able to. The wisest advice I’ve ever been given as a mama is to trust your instinct. You may wish to read The Gentle Sleep book by Sarah Ockwell-Smith - if you haven’t found it already, it sounds perfect for you. You sound like a gentle parent, whether or not you label yourself that way (it’s what I’d call myself) so you may find a gentle parenting FB group is less bruising than MN as everyone there will be in alignment with your values. I have found them very supportive and positive. I also found supportive playgroups very helpful - there was something about having someone hand me a cup of tea that made all the difference. This too shall pass - these months feel endless but things will get better. Solidarity and hugs 💐

I'm in a very similar position

Have a look at the beyond sleep training group on fb, it's helped save my sanity

When DD was 10 months we'd never had more than 2hr stretches, she's now 15 months and we usually get at least 1 four hour stretch a night 💐

Without squashing blueberries?!?

why?!?!?!! She’s 10 months. Blueberries don’t need to be not whole?

Why would you leave your daughter to cry for hours?!? I’m so confused?!?

Your post was pretty much our life. We survived on a tag team approach. I slept 7-12. Dh put ds down at 7 he would wake 10/11 and dh would give an expressed bottle. He would then go til 12/1 and then basically wake every hour or so. I tried to get 5/6 hours and then just grabbed what I could after that. Some things that helped were stopping bf in night and getting rid of dummy. He started sleeping through about 14m. Ds has allergies to milk,soya and nuts. We had meds and managed it through diet. Nuts we didn't discover until he was a bit older. He's 7 now and can tolerate some dairy baked in to food.

That's what extinction-based approaches do. The theory behind extinction is that the undesirable behaviour is 'corrected' by the person/animal doing it gradually learning that it doesn't generate a response. So in this context, the idea would be that the child stops crying, not because they've learned to self-soothe, but because they've learned nobody comes even if they do cry.

(I refuse to do this, btw, definitely not advocating for it. There are far less traumatising approaches available.)

@Scirocco are you the OP? Thank you so much for explaining it to me! I appreciate it. Is that not the cry it out method? I agree I couldn't leave my daughter to cry for hours on end. I thought cry it out was more keep going on to comfort as such? Just don't stay for ages?

I too had a baby with reflux and a dairy allergy , who I bf and eventually just co-slept with
before his diagnosis it nearly drove me to a complete breakdown. I just thought I was doing a terrible job. First baby during lockdown. But with the right help things did get better very quickly
I’m sure you’ve done all necessary research! As you do when desperate for a solution! Things that helped us - there is a website called baby cues ran by a really nice lady which has a great weaning guide , very gentle , very slow which really helped me (as did talking to her she’s really knowledgeable in this area! And really kind) i also went down some homeopathic/ holistic routes too which were a game changer, a pp also mentioned meditation, me and DS still meditate together now and he’s 3. We are oddly so bonded after all this it’s hard to explain?!
I really hope your project comes together and that you find the time to re connect with your friends I couldn’t be without mine.