Active discussions

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Parenting

For free parenting resources please check out the Early Years Alliance's Family Corner.

Original poster

No one understands

103 replies

bluebellaa · 17/02/2023 22:38

I'm really not expecting anyone on MN to understand, I just really need to vent and I've pretty much lost most of my friends.

DD is 10 months old and has never, ever once slept longer than 3 hours at night. 3 hours is actually only applicable to when she was a newborn, now it's 1.5 - 2 hours max. Subsequently I have literally not had more than 3 hours of unbroken sleep since before she was born, and often times I'm roused up to 10 times a night. I refuse to sleep train for multiple reasons, including personal experience, it being inappropriate for DD's temperament, and the fact that I'm aware a lot of her nightly disturbance is due to discomfort from gas and reflux (stemming from a habitual poor latch that I can do absolutely nothing about at this age).

DD is also (E)BF alongside solids. She has multiple allergies that I therefore also have to avoid, which have caused symptomatic deficiencies and I have lost a lot of weight from pre-pregnancy. I used to be an amateur bodybuilder and I am now very skinny and saggy. Again for multiple personal reasons that I won't go into here, formula is not an option and neither is weaning off of BF at this stage.

DP works very long hours multiple times a week and has educational commitments alongside working, thus he doesn't spend anywhere near as much time with DD as I do. DD therefore has developed very strong separation anxiety from me and only being consoled by me. Hearing her screaming like someone has broken her leg because she only wants me and trying to ignore the instinct to be with her ruins my mental health.

PIL are around but, to be honest, I don't trust them. I have witnessed how they treat our nieces away from their mum; the way they have been with DD at times (purposely trying to scare her and make her cry at 5 months old); having no concept of how to safely offer solid foods (giving blueberries whole without squashing them); putting DD in her car seat in a pram suit... I could go on. Frankly I do not feel at all comfortable leaving DD with them when I'm due to go back to work, and they are our only option in the way of childcare.

Our future is (and has been since before DD) been banking on the success of an 'entrepreneurial venture' should we say. With the changes to the economy in the last year, failure to realise the plans I've been working on for the past 3 years now will mean we will be forced to sell our house.

As a result I spend every opportunity (DD's naps, some time when she goes to bed, and whenever DP is around to look after her) working towards this goal. I do nothing for myself because I am putting every ounce of energy into this project for the sake of our future. I don't even see friends, hence why I'm posting here rather than messaging them.

The pressure is gigantic, and the combination of it all is causing me to start to crack. I am terrified that I will let my family and myself down. I am equally upset that I am watching time slip away from me and am not finding myself able to be present and enjoy watching my daughter grow up.

I'm not going to give up, on any of it, but tonight after fighting an overtired 10 month old to get to sleep and DP being away, I really needed to let it out to help me straighten my thoughts.

Appreciate if you've read the whole way through, thank you. X

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
Set a reminder
IfYoureGonnaBreakMyHeart · 17/02/2023 23:40

desperadodogface · 17/02/2023 22:53

OP, I feel the same about you about sleep training and slightly differently have no family support to help. DD woke every 2 hours until she was 22 months and then slept thru. 10 months would have been amazing. I know it's exhausting but as anEBF mum you have choices.

Ds slept in 45 min cycles. Progressed to two hours. We never sleep trained. When he was two we managed to work a way of settling him by sitting outside his room and working our way away:
But I'm still not sure what you want from your post? It reads like a reply to someone else's question?

Paturday · 17/02/2023 23:42

Sleep training doesn’t always equal screaming, it can be quick and gentle. Just like potty training - everyone dreads it but it’s quite common for it to be straightforward.

Feeding - only 2 months until you can switch to cows milk, but I assume one of the allergies is milk.

In your shoes (ie my own health suffering) I would 100% have switched to formula by now. But you don’t want to so that’s that I guess.

Mistlewoeandwhine · 17/02/2023 23:46

My youngest was like that. He actually didn’t sleep through the night until he was 4. My husband can cope with less sleep than me so he walked up and down with him all night and then went to work the next day. I coped with the crying during the day plus our other child who has autism and had nocturnal epilepsy. It nearly broke us. I actually got accidentally pregnant and had to have a termination as we couldn’t cope with both of our kids having separate high needs and another child too. We had no family support either. Our crying child definitely didn’t have any other problems, he just didn’t need sleep.

Anyway, that crying child is now a teenager and one of the best people ever. He’s cool, funny and very loving. I do suspect him of having mild adhd or something as he still thrives on very little sleep, but he is doing so well at a grammar and has good mental health etc so it doesn’t seem to be worth pursuing. It just seems to be his personality. Anyway, I just want to remind you that it does end. Hugs to you xxx

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

9-12 months old Babies & sleep Families General health
Original poster
bluebellaa · 17/02/2023 23:46

Whyx · 17/02/2023 22:55

Wow. That sounds so so hard.

As a mum of one tongue tied (couldn't even latch on a bottle) cmpa and egg allergy baby (only diagnosed at 6mo) I know some of what you've been through. I remember the endless winding, pacing, screaming until exhausted baby and my heart aches.

It will get easier.

With so many allergies could hayfever or dust etc be bothering her? Can she have piriton or anything? What kind of medical support do you have?

I think you would do yourself a favour to try leaving baby with dad and sleeping out of earshot. Baby might cry but they'll still be comforted by dad. Will she drink BM from a cup??

I know you just wanted to vent but a chronic advice giver.

I still appreciate the intent of trying to help.

Her allergies cause only gastrointestinal symptoms (vomiting, diarrhoea, bloody stools), rather than anything respiratory or skin related, and only after consumption of particular foods, so I'm not inclined to believe she has the allergies you've said. I've not ever given her an antihistamine purely because I've just eliminated the trigger. I will ask her dietician when we next meet about whether an antihistamine might be appropriate.

We have tried DP doing the night shift on occasions (not regularly as he has to sleep for work). Offering her any form of bottle would/does result in her screaming blue murder and becoming completely inconsolable (by anything then but the boob). She never fully wakes up and instead is in some half sleep state, and any attempt to wake her up results in the same level of distress so you couldn't get her to sit up to drink from a cup unfortunately. DP has parasomnia and will often say/do things as though he's awake but be very confused and disorientated if you confront him and have little to no recollection of it the next day. His brother is the same. We are wondering if DD has something along those lines too.

OP posts:
Original poster
bluebellaa · 17/02/2023 23:59

WinterFoxes · 17/02/2023 22:58

Dear, dear OP. I understand. I really do. DS never slept more than an hour at a time, max 3 hours over the course of a whoile night. I was psychotic with sleep deprivation. Hallucinating. Couldn't remember my own name or address. DS also had severe reflux and screamed for hours and hours all day and night and never ate. We also had no one nearby we could trust to take care of DC. And DH lost his job. All in that year.

He had a lot of other very scary medical problems which I won't bore you with. It was the worst year of my life. I had depressive issues (because I didn't get them treated for four years) and trauma for a long time afrerwards. In some ways I still have a traumatic reaction to many things linked to that year.

But, on the bright side, honestly, I think i enjoyed parenting more than almost anyone i know because once we came through the appalling first year, I enjoyed the basic, simple things about parenting so much. The relief once life settles, the immense pleasure once you get a few unbroken hours sleep - these give you more joy than people with 'easy babies' will ever know.

And I do believe every child has their good and bad phases. That year was hell but he never had toddler tantrums and was the gentlest teen - no dramas at all.

I hated it when people told me the hellish times pass because that is no comfort when you are in them. And when you are sleep deprived it feels like they will last forever and ever. But you will come through.

Don;t be scared of being an absolute PITA with the gP. Insist they refer you to a sleep clinic and trial appropriate meds for the reflux. You say she is 10 momths old. Can you not, with care against the allergies, start introducing solids. We found this helped a bit with DS's reflux.

I'm sorry you went through such a difficult time yourself, and I am glad you relished in the good times when they finally did come.

DD does already eat solids (and a fairly good amount in fairness). My belief that her disturbances through the night are reflux related are due to knowing she has a particularly poor latch in the night, coupled by the large amount of lower gas that builds up by the early hours, and the huge wet belches she'll produce as soon as she sits upright on waking in the morning (and often the momentary grimace that comes with it). Maybe I'm wrong and it's not one of the things that bothers her, but it seems the logical explanation. Solids have unfortunately not made any difference that we've noticed.

OP posts:
Original poster
bluebellaa · 18/02/2023 00:03

Randobelia · 17/02/2023 23:01

What's extinction?

Only going by what you wrote in the OP re lack of sleep/deficiencies/husband not being around enough and inadequate childcare options.

If you don't want to change, that's fine - but if you're at your wit's end due to sleep deprivation you don't sound in a good place which is presumably why you posted.

Extinction being leaving them to cry, for hours on end if necessary, in isolation from you. It's the one thing I will never be able to bring myself (and neither would I want to) to do. Not because I don't want things to improve, but because in the case of DD and why I believe she has night disturbances, it would be cruel.

OP posts:
SimonRileysGhost · 18/02/2023 00:09

Sleep training is a terrible idea for a baby who has medical issues like OPs does.

Formula is also a terrible idea for a baby with allergies and reflux.

Weaning onto solids was the turning point with my eldest who had CMPA and awful reflux.

I'm going to come at this from a different angle. You need to address the bigger issues in your life. Your DP needs to be home more and you probably need to accept that financially you are up shit creek instead of flogging a dead horse like it sounds like you are doing currently.

You can't do it all on your own. Even if DP gets a month off to help you get some proper sleep would be a start probably.

You also need to put yourself first. You can't help anyone if you're broken yourself.

TheShellBeach · 18/02/2023 00:11

Sleep training is quick and easy.
It took two nights for my DD to sleep all night.
Why are you so opposed to it?

Original poster
bluebellaa · 18/02/2023 00:23

BertieBotts · 17/02/2023 23:02

I don't think any of my children have slept longer stretches at that age. I know DS2 definitely didn't, the other two had possibly done the odd 4/5 hour stretch. With each child I do get a bit more proactive at sleep - I did nothing for DS1, he slept longer stretches at about 2, i night weaned DS2 at 2.5 and he slept longer then, I'm night weaning DS3 now at 1.5 and it's going fine.

But I find it manageable. If you don't, what could you do that would make it easier? I'm lucky and I haven't had to work during their early years so that isn't a worry. I basically nap every time they nap, cosleep to minimise disruption at night and have really low expectations of myself in the day, sometimes go to bed at 7pm etc.

Can your DH give you nap time at the weekend when he's around and baby is awake or does that not work? What about looking into a local childminder or similar if you have the budget?

I really like Lyndsey hookway on sleep and think she's really helpful. No non responsive methods, and she doesn't have any magic bullet that will make a baby sleep longer stretches but I like her all around views on sleep.

I've said all along (in person I mean, not on this thread), that if I was on maternity leave to do nothing else other than care for DD then I would be absolutely fine. As you say, I'd nap every time she did and probably go to bed at the same time too so at least I got a long night even if it was broken. If I had nothing else to worry about other than sleep, it would be a dream.

It's the work pressure (and how that will impact many areas of life) that's causing all of the other issues to be magnified and compounded.

I utilise DP's free time to get more work done as I'm quickly running out of time and am no where near where I'd hoped to be by this point (motherhood is time consuming, who knew?). I have previously tried to take a nap when he's offered but I often find myself lying wide awake, even though that's a huge paradox under the circumstances.

We're not in a position to afford professional childcare unless I go back full time, which I don't plan to as then I'll pretty much just be working to pay for said childcare.

Something I haven't actually mentioned so far is that DD doesn't need help falling asleep initially. She will fall asleep for naps and, as she's gotten older, more and more often at night. She also stirs during her naps and remains asleep for 2 hours or so. And, even on the odd occasion, will do the same at night. I don't believe she has an inability to fall asleep independently (I know she doesn't because she does it 2 or 3 times a day). This is why I believe all of the gentler sleep training tips we've tried have wound up causing significantly more distress, because there's actually a specific issue (such as wind or reflux) causing her discomfort, rather than her just not being able to link cycles.

OP posts:
Original poster
bluebellaa · 18/02/2023 00:28

WandaWonder · 17/02/2023 23:06

If you don't want advice why put this in a forum? A diary would make more sense

If you have problems make changes, only you can do that

You've never messaged another human being just to tell them you're having a hard time after a particularly hard time because it made you feel a little better without expecting said human being to wave a magic wand and make it all go away, rather than keeping absolutely everything, ever, to yourself? Very strange if you haven't.

OP posts:
notangelinajolie · 18/02/2023 00:35

OP if you won't change anything then nothing will change.

Stop playing the victim card and stop the drama. You are in charge. You are the responsible adult and you are the one who can stop this. Your child deserves more than this.

Original poster
bluebellaa · 18/02/2023 00:42

Loopylands · 17/02/2023 23:11

Oh and one of my children had massive reflux issues and sleep training did work, and you can also get special formula for allergies. There really is no excuse for not trying these things, other than some form of weird punishment because what you’re doing isn’t good for you or your baby!

Good for you, I'm pleased your baby responded well to sleep training. Not all babies are the same, and from everything we have already tried, mine does not.

As for the breastfeeding, in case you missed the response I've already given, I have very personal reasons that make breastfeeding for as long as physically possible very important to me that I don't wish to discuss further. It's not some form of weird punishment, and I'd like to think you'd feel awkward suggesting it as so if you understood the reasons why. Let's leave it at that.

OP posts:
CallieQ · 18/02/2023 00:48

I think if you gave her a bottle and tried sleep training you life would get easier

CallieQ · 18/02/2023 00:50

As for the breastfeeding, in case you missed the response I've already given, I have very personal reasons that make breastfeeding for as long as physically possible very important to me that I don't wish to discuss further. It's not some form of weird punishment, and I'd like to think you'd feel awkward suggesting it as so if you understood the reasons why. Let's leave it at that.

But you are making a rod for your own back with this attitude

Opine · 18/02/2023 00:52

I feel for you. All of my children have kept me awake for at least two years each so I know the misery.

I don’t sleep train & I don’t wean before I’m ready to. I want to sleep but not at any cost. I’ve decided what’s important to me & so I’ve just had to ride the storm. I think that may be your only option too.

Stay strong, it doesn’t last forever & if it does you will know when it’s time to be proactive.

Original poster
bluebellaa · 18/02/2023 00:57

Lostthetastefordahlias · 17/02/2023 23:14

This sounds so tough. With all kindness and respect I think you are too tired to think of a way (that suits you) out of this situation. I am sure you have considered all the options but could you pump and get DP to feed in the night, or just stop feeding in the night and then DP can get her back to sleep? You will feel so different after a few nights unbroken sleep and there is no reason why you can’t get it at Dd’s age. Try everything you can to build the relationship between DP and DD in the daytime? You don’t have to listen to her cry if you go for a walk or out somewhere. DP can always call if she is really inconsolable?
There are other things you could change without sleep training by leaving her - for example try a mattress on the floor in her room but only talk to her when she wakes, don't pick her up? There are sleep books which suggest solutions which aren’t just leaving her to cry. We completely changed our routine with DD at 10 months and she started waking once instead of 4 times.
With all this going on you can’t also shoulder all the financial pressure. If DP works long hours could you be better off in a house affordable on his salary?
If your daughter was in this situation when she is older, what would you advise her? Surely not to run herself completely into the ground?

Some of your post I've already answered so I appreciate the suggestions and will respond to the new points.

DD's sleep disturbances only occur at night, and so there's no where I could be that would mean I was out of earshot of her. DP and her do spend time together when possible but I'd say 80% of the time I am her sole caregiver and so I'm not surprised, at 10 months, her strongest affinity is for me. I suspect this will change over the next few months but at this very moment, she makes it very obvious who she wants and it's not dad.

Talking/singing to her, touching her (not picking her up, I mean just placing a hand on her), picking her up also though, get a reaction I can only describe as terror. She won't open her eyes, she will just scream and flail (not in a protest sort of way, this is a very sudden, panicked reaction to even a gentle whisper of her name). This is why I've wondered if parasomnia is hereditary.

Our house is affordable on his salary, at least up until the mortgage is up for renewal. We would be paying the same for a significantly smaller mortgage that was taken out now, and so we would actually be worse off financially if we were to move in the immediate future. The security of our house is important but there are some other expenses that my anticipated income would go towards covering that there simply is no money for otherwise. All of it is on my mind.

OP posts:
Nicecow · 18/02/2023 00:58

notangelinajolie · 18/02/2023 00:35

OP if you won't change anything then nothing will change.

Stop playing the victim card and stop the drama. You are in charge. You are the responsible adult and you are the one who can stop this. Your child deserves more than this.

This. It sounds like you're trying to be a martyr. Do what you want, it's totally your prerogative of course, but don't complain about it either when you have choices. Also sleep is so important for you and your family, there's a reason they use sleep deprivation for torture. All the best OP, hope things improve for you soon Flowers

Original poster
bluebellaa · 18/02/2023 01:02

Randobelia · 17/02/2023 23:16

If they're like that then why not nursery/childminder? Why are they the only option?

Financials. I'm either working to predominantly afford childcare if PIL don't have her, or I may as well not work for the benefit of looking after her myself. Neither way affords me the time to do my own personal work though, which is what's making this situation stressful/unrelatedable to a lot of people, as this isn't an active aim during most people's maternity leave from what I've seen.

OP posts:
Opine · 18/02/2023 01:03

Also, BF is very triggering to lots of women. As you know Formula isn’t the answer to your problems but your insistence on continuing to do so is taken as martyrdom.
You’ll just have to ignore that because it comes at you from almost every angle. You’d get far more sympathy were you FF. BF makes this all your own doing. Very tedious rhetoric.

Original poster
bluebellaa · 18/02/2023 01:10

QforCucumber · 17/02/2023 23:20

Totally get it - ds2 is 2.5 and I’m not exaggerating when I say he’s JUST (this month) started sleeping in stretches longer than 2.5/3 hours.
he’s been in full time nursery since 9 months old (due to not trusting my dm with him even though she would have offered childcare) meaning I’ve been back at ft work since then too - accompanied by the wake ups and bottle refusal. Yes we get it. No we didn’t sleep train. Yes it’s hard. You get on with it and then it passes.

I'm really glad to hear it.

I know it'll pass, maybe next week by some miracle or maybe not still she's 3 (or later). Who knows. It was just one of those nights after one of those days and I wanted to tell someone for my own sanity. Just being able to talk about it, irrespective of whether people have been critiqueful or understanding, has actually helped.

OP posts:
Original poster
bluebellaa · 18/02/2023 01:12

Lostthetastefordahlias · 17/02/2023 23:27

Could DP take some annual leave and take on the nights for a week?

DP doesn't get floating leave that he can book any time due to the type of job he does (rota based). He built his leave into his shifts when he started, so he takes a day off here and there to break up blocks of shifts, rather than taking blocks of leave if that makes sense.

OP posts:
ZuliKyanLarsFoz · 18/02/2023 01:17

So many people harping on about formula when the OP has clearly stated she is not happy to use this. It is not some magical elixir that makes babies sleep.

Original poster
bluebellaa · 18/02/2023 01:19

Iwasntgettingasandwich · 17/02/2023 23:28

Between birth and 17 months, dd1 slept through the night twice. All other nights she slept for periods of about 5 hours (fantastic) or 45 mins (regularly). I went back to work when she was 8 months and frequently hallucinated from tiredness. I was absolutely against sleep training but did manage to get her to carry on sleeping when I put her in her cot when was was over 1. It took a few weeks. She suddenly started sleeping between 7 and 7 when she was 17 months old. No reason, nothing different. It was amazing.

It's not healthy. That little sleep is dangerous for you. Do you drive? You'll be doing it badly. Possibly dangerously. Work? Badly. Your immune system will be shot, you'll have no patience. It's not sustainable.

Ouch, I really feel you there. I'd say we've had, maybe 15 or so nights in history, of more like every 30 minutes (that was mostly when we were sussing out allergies we weren't aware of), but it's definitely more like 1.5 hours these days.

DD used to be an absolute nightmare for daytime sleep (2 x 30 minute naps), and in recent weeks/past couple of months that seems to have improved significantly for no apparent reason (now 2-3 hours cumulatively), which I have to be thankful for. I'd hoped that would have a knock on effect into the night... no such luck, but I guess it's a start.

OP posts:
QueenCamilla · 18/02/2023 01:26

My suggestion is to sleep train.

I was also an amateur bodybuilder. I suffered badly from prolonged labour and emergency section. Then I became allergic to breastfeeding (literally allergic to lactation hormones) and I was on the brink of "losing it" via lack of sleep and insanely itchy hives that were making me cry.

I started sleep training (all out Gina Ford), then introduced bottle, then formula... And in about 6 - 8 weeks my life was transformed.
I was back in the gym pretty soon too.

My son is 9 now and is still a wonderful sleeper. No tantrums, no arguments just goes to bed and falls asleep.

I do think you're destroying yourself and your family by refusing to manage the situation. It's not working, something has to change.

treasurefoil · 18/02/2023 01:47

QueenCamilla · 18/02/2023 01:26

My suggestion is to sleep train.

I was also an amateur bodybuilder. I suffered badly from prolonged labour and emergency section. Then I became allergic to breastfeeding (literally allergic to lactation hormones) and I was on the brink of "losing it" via lack of sleep and insanely itchy hives that were making me cry.

I started sleep training (all out Gina Ford), then introduced bottle, then formula... And in about 6 - 8 weeks my life was transformed.
I was back in the gym pretty soon too.

My son is 9 now and is still a wonderful sleeper. No tantrums, no arguments just goes to bed and falls asleep.

I do think you're destroying yourself and your family by refusing to manage the situation. It's not working, something has to change.

That's great of sleep training and bottles worked for you, but this mum already said that she didn't want this. So seems more like she needs support with her decisions x