Be really honest - working with babies/kids

[DopeGirl]

I’m looking for complete honesty from other parents (both SAHM and WOHM). I can’t discuss this in real life without causing offence to parents which I don’t mean too but I want honest perspectives that aren’t defensive.

I’ve recently gone back to work from mat leave after having my first baby. Grandparents do childcare.

Im currently working 3 days and have until May to decide my hours permanently.

I really enjoy my job and found Mat Leave quite isolating at times. Going back I’ve felt like ‘me’ again.

However I feel stuck in a bind. On the 4 days I’m off I feel a bit ‘meh’. I take baby out and clean up the house but do feel ‘meh’. So I think then that maybe I should do 4 days in work.

But.. and this is the bit that I can’t say out loud in real life without offending but it’s meant with the best of intentions..

The 3 days I’m at work I don’t really see baby. By the time we get home it’s bath and bed. They go to bed at 7/7.30. So I literally see them for 1-2 hours the entire day. I don’t see how that’s fair on baby or our relationship to only see their parents 1 hour a day?! If I did work 4 days then they’d spend more time away from me than with me. That can’t be good for them?

But then my brother and sis in-law and some friends put their baby in nursery 5 days a week 8am - 6pm. So I think how are they able to properly be primary caregiver 1-2 hours a day 5 days a week? They only get weekends? So only 2 days a week?

Then on weekends if you want to see friends, have a date night or do something away from baby then you only get 1.5 days or 1 day a week with your child? So then that week it’d be 5 days at nursery, half a day with parent, an evening with a baby sitter and 1 full day with parent, followed by another 5 days at nursery. Most waking hours are away from parents even if you don’t ever have time away from child at weekends?

I know that may read as judgemental but my tone isn’t meant that way. More I want to know how it works in practicality, as I know it must work as many say their adult children are completely fine and they are close.

I just want tips to get the balance ‘right’. Before I decide my working hours.

I feel guilty if I spend a day away from baby after working 3 days as then they’ve had 4 days away from me so more time without me than with me.

If I do 4 working days then I’d feel even worse on the 3 days if I spend 1 of those days away from them seeing friends/date nights etc. but I know I need that time to keep relationships outside motherhood.

But at the same time on those 4 days off, by the 4th day I am ready to go back to work which makes me think maybe I should work 4 days.

So it’s about finding that balance. I really want to know how other parents found that ‘balance’ and how it works in reality. It might help give me some perspective on things.

Really hope this doesn’t come across as goady because I’m honestly looking for long term parenting advice.

I don't think it makes you a "weirdo", definitely not.

But when there is a concert you can't go to, when you can't pick them up and they want you to, when its half term and they would like to be with you but you need to work ... etc. for me I have to manage the guilt and their disappointments, knowing that it is necessary for me to work and good for them to see me do it.

Its not a huge deal but it is definitely there as something I have to manage emotionally.

We are pretty fortunate in that the school is literally 2 mins walk away and we can both WFH if needed so we don't need to miss concerts etc, one of us can always go and make up the time at work/take as lunch break

So far mine have been very happy to go to clubs etc. The only twinge of guilt I have is when they are sort of borderline ill/coming down with something and I can't justify taking the day off because they aren't properly unwell but I know they would be happier at home.

I think a lot depends on the people around you/expectations. I don't actually have any friends who are SAHMs so I didn't see that as a standard option

It’s hard, I worked full time after first. 3 days after second but struggling financially so may have to up hours, the guilt is horrendous whatever but just remember you are doing what is best for your family.

Everyone is different but I couldn't leave my baby. He is 17 months old now and I am with him 24 hours a day and that won't be changing for a few years. The way I see it is that he will be at school soon and then at work and I'll never get this time back. I enjoy time with kids though and we go out to toddler groups and classes, play areas, swimming ect. every day Monday-Saturday and sometimes Sundays too if something is on. I have worked in nurseries though and have seen a mixture of poor care and poor children who are in from the moment the doors opened to closing time and then they had weekends with their grandparents which I always thought was sad 😞

Wow, I would hate to be that kind of person that can’t understand how others might have different feelings and lives. You could be the worst parent in the world and spend 100% of your time with them - sadly that happens. I work four days a week as a choice. I condense my hours and sometimes do a catch up day on a Friday once a month whilst my child has the day with their grandparents. We have a lovely little family and are all happy, everyone is loved and cared for. My husband and I do equal parenting/housekeeping /mental load. Hopefully this will mean our children won’t grow up as narrow minded as some people here are, but you never know!!

it might not work for you, but it clearly works for some!

When I had my son I worked two weeks on two off. The weeks I worked he was up at 6am, we left the house about 8.20, dropped him off at daycare at 8.45 and I was at my desk around 9.15. Collected him at 6pm, home shortly before 7, food and yes time for bath, story bed. But that's still at least four hours a day with him. And dates? I didn't go out much at all first few years - we did entertain at home. I might go out with the girls but baby would he in bed by then and my husband took care of him.
Seems like you have an ideal set up to me, and as it's your (or partners) parents doing the childcare your baby has carers who are totally focussed on him and building a fantastic relationship! See no issue with going up to four days.

OP this is the tough bit about having kids and being honest 1 to 2 hours a day is not a lot with your child. Apologies I know some people will not like that answer but I was the child whose parents spent 1 to 2 hours a day with me and it wasn't great. I missed my mum and when she was off she was exhausted. She did work more days than you so I am not suggesting your child will feel the same. You have a nice work/life balance and actually as your child gets older they will need you more on some ways and things get more fun.

Someone has mentioned school hours. Kids on school get loads of holidays, in service days and strikes etc. My kids are off normally 13 weeks a year from school which is a blinking nightmare for working parents. In your case you also have to factor in grandparents. They may not always be able to help out so much and how do they feel about it? If your asking them to have your little one 4 days a week it's a huge ask.

I have worked full time and part time. Very part time works for us. My kids are all now in preschool and school. We do lots of activities such as Lego club, swimming, learning time, homework, sets and crafts, playdates, trampoline park, woodland walks, parks etc and my oldest has told me he is glad I am home more. The middle one has said he loves that I do so much with them. However I am very hands on with my kids and really enjoy doing these things not everyone does.

I don't think anyone can tell you what will work for you but you won't get the time back and a kids get older activities tend to become more fun. Plan for you days of go swimming, meet a friend at soft play, go to toddlers etc it makes it fun.

Is your husband agonising over this?

I don't think anyone is claiming that both parents working full time is the ideal situation for babies/toddlers, but then neither is staying at home with a parent who feels 'meh'.

The point is that your child will likely be fine either way and you have to do what is best for you AS WELL AS your child.

Couldn't disagree more with the previous post. Staying at home does your children no favours if you end up feeling bored, resentful or bitter. It can also leave you fairly trapped in your relationship which certainly isn't for everyone.

So many dads wouldn't even consider dropping their hours to spend more time with their children. I don't see why mums should feel any more guilty.

Totally Agree @MGee123
Obviously EJRB, you are absolutely entitled to your opinion, but don't spout such rubbish as if it were facts

Nurseries only came about when women started going out to work until then we all brought up our own children.

The aristocrats have always had their dc brought up by other people.
So have the poorest in society where they have had to go out and work in the fields, mills, factories, etc. Many, many people have had others look after their dc for them, for centuries.

The connection between parent and child cannot be beaten by child and any other care giver
Absolute poppycock.

If you don’t enjoy being at home try to make it better and more interesting. As your little one gets older you’ll find more things to do
Are you actually trying to be patronising ?

Ok, so my experience. I've got 5 kids. When eldest was 1 year I was in law school and he was in nursery from 8-1800 5 days a week. He's now 26. Our relationship is good, as is my relationship with all my children who had a mum who worked her arse off either studying or working. Now, they are grateful for the fact that we have a great income and I can help my adult kids out whenever they need me to. They never want for anything and they don't know what it's like to suffer financial stress. For them it's also normal for women to have careers and outearn them because sex is irrelevant. I have been homeless and bloody poor. Eating a few chocolate bars a week because I had nothing else.
I've literally gone from living in a box to being in the top 5%.
I'm an extreme example. My point is, kids need a tonne more than a mum or dad who is just there fulfilling a role. Yes you are vital, but at the end of the day, just that doesn't cut it. Brutal but true.

Just to add as I can see this divide growing in the conversation, my sister stopped speaking to me when my son was very young as she thought I was a selfish asshole (her words) who was 'getting other people to being up my son'. She stayed at home and only now gets a job in her forties. This is fine. Whatever works, but honestly her relationship with her kids is no better than mine. And I'm the one with the career and an independent income and options. Not her. Her kids are definitely no better off emotionally than mine. I couldn't have given a damn if she stayed home but telling me that I'm a bad parent for worrying about how food gets on the table is fuckin nuts.

Some of you are in a very privileged position if you can afford to stay at home with your kids. Please remember that when guilting others. Some people are happier when working and it’s better for their mental health. Some people have a choice and would prefer to be at home. All valid choices but don’t judge others .

dparents. When children see their parents working it also is a role model for them, in particular so that they see that being female doesn’t mean you can only be a wife and mother, there are more options.

Personally I find it an ignorant attitude to claim to not understand why people have children if they are going to use childcare, and it’s usually sexist too, the dads are usually never blamed for this only the mums. There are very obvious reasons that parents have to use childcare, most families can’t afford to live on one salary. Working can also have huge benefits for women, not least an identity beyond “mum” and financial independence.

Both parents working part time where that’s an option also has potential benefits beyond one parent working and the other not, as there is equal time and opportunity to forge a connection with the child(ren) and, where one parent is male, a role modelling that males can also be caregivers. Sad to say but the more men do this the more likely it is that taking care of children is seen to have more value by society. It also means both parents are on equal footing rather than one parent’s contribution to the household being seen to have less value. Amongst my friends there is a trend of fathers being just as involved in childcare as mothers, with many being as part time or more part time than their wife.

If having one parent be at home and one working is the best choice for a family, then great, but it’s not a reason to disparage other family’s choices or circumstances.

Something happened to the first half of my post but you get the gist.

We were both high earners when DD came along. DH worked away 5.5 days a week when DD was a baby. I took voluntary redundancy from my full time role and set up a consultancy, working around DD. Returned to corporate life when DH stopped travelling so much. Now, DD is 12 and I’m the one working away 3 days a week on average.

I’ve continued to climb the ladder, have better pension than DH and he’s now the one with the flexibility for DD. I think that’s a pretty good lesson for her. DH and I are equals in parenting so we made sure it balanced out. No way would I have let my career take a back seat in favour of DH’s.

OP, I think there is no right way to do things because every family is different.

Every parent is different. Some parents are very interested in things like child psychology and child development and so enjoy seeking out ways to stimulate and entertain their child in much the same way as some people are naturally more suited to careers in childcare and teaching. And some parents find that they are not naturally so good or interested in that. I don't think it makes the latter type of parent bad parents. Just different in their approach.

Every child is different. Some are naturally more introverted or anxious and like a lot of quiet explorative play or looking at books etc. Others are more confident and enjoy lots of loud busy environmentswith lots of interaction with others. I work in an infant school and you can see the difference in the types of kids. Some of them who go to after school clubs rather than home seem unhappy about it. They've obviousy had enough of being around multiple people all day and would prefer to just go home and chill quietly and do their own thing. Those children seem a bit more quiet anxious and clingy generally. Others positively thrive on more group activity and are very outgoing and chatty and confident.

Every job is different. What is one person's version of "full time" is not another's. My DH works FT. But his FT was at times 60-70 hours a week when my kids were younger. He had extremely irregular hours and no chance of working from home. So depending on your own situation I wouldn't advise taking too much advice off people on here who say "well we both work FT and make it work. He gets dropped off at nursery at 8.45am and collected at 4.30pm." If I had worked FT when mine were babies there is no way that would have been possible in my situation.

Every extended family is different. Some children have willing and nearby grandparents. Who aren't still working themselves. Who can do a day or two of childcare each week. That's not possible in other families.

Every financial situation is different. One household income will be vastly different from another. Even if incomes are the same in 2 different families their outgoings may be very very different.

So, OP, my strong advice is for you to do you. The absolutely most important thing is to go with your gut and what works for you, your child and your own individual family situation.

My own mum was a traditional SAHM in the 70s and 80s. While she was around in a physical sense, for practical things, I don't think she particularly enjoyed being with us that much to be honest. She always appeared to be busy doing housework or talking to neighbours to me, and never seemed to enjoy spending much time with us. I think she found it boring. I think she was just falling in to what was seen to be the way to be a good mum at the time without even thinking about it much. She never really had much of a career and I think that ultimately it was to her detriment to be honest, and actually to all of us, because it made my dad too dependent on her (he can't cook, clean etc) and it made her lack confidence in herself and be too financially dependent on him. And I think the lack of confidence rubbed off on me and I don't feel I ever reached my full career potential really. Who knows, if I had had a working mum role model maybe I would have turned out more confident and a higher earner?

Sorry, that was all a bit wrong, but I hope you know what I'm trying to say. There is just no one-size fits all. I think you are right to want to discuss it on here because people do get very defensive about their parenting choices. They feel judged whatever they do. But you just need to have the confidence to know yourself and your limits, your children and their limits and your own financial situation and how you can make it all work.

Then on weekends if you want to see friends, have a date night or do something away from baby

Well no, you don't really do this. I work full time and have two children. I only do social things after they're in bed and we don't have the possibility of date nights 🤣
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We did 4 days nursery, 1 day grandparents.

We saw her for a couple of hours before dropping her off and then 3/4 hours after, but she was never a good sleeper so also a couple of hours in the night 😂

Also had a cleaner and gardener so the weekends were ours to do fun stuff.

No regrets.

that was all a bit wrong

LONG! Not wrong!🙄

I work compressed hours so 5 full days in 4. In reality my 2 year old is up at about 5am and I've seen her at least once in the night (if not the whole night ) - in addition to the evenings before she goes to bed, my day off and weekends. I feel I see her plenty and found being a SAHM tough. I've just gone on mat leave and am going to drop her down to 3 days at nursery (so one extra day with me) which I am looking forward to though.

Thanks for the further responses guys.
I feel a lot better having read the responses despite the divide. In fact the opposite responses have helped a lot rather than seeing the same old mantra of ‘happy mum, happy child’ as I don’t necessarily believe that either.

My own mum worked full time through most of my childhood and I can honestly say hand on heart it’s not at all what I want for my own dc. My mum was a single parent and very loving and kind but also ran herself ragged to make ends meet bless her. We were in breakfast clubs, after school clubs and holiday clubs. I remember after school watching my friends be picked up to go home to chill out and me being so ready for home but having to stay, it sucked tbh. Even when we went to a lovely childminders after school it wasn’t much better. The childminders kids could do bath, pyjamas and a film early after school in winter, if they were feeling particularly knackered. But us mindees had to continue to be sociable in our uniforms until pickup. It was exhausting. But needs must and I get that.

Im very close to my mum as an adult so it hasn’t damaged our relationship or anything. I have a lot of respect for her. Likewise my friends from school with SAHMs have careers themselves so I don’t think you need to have both parents working FT to show ‘worth ethic’ or anything.

@CurlyhairedAssassin Your post has hit the nail on the head. Everyone’s family circumstances are so different so does make receiving advice tricky to apply to my own circumstances.
We are very lucky to have very hands on retired grandparents who would happily have dc full time if we needed too. I know this is very fortunate and we’re so thankful.
Also different in our position is the whole ‘career progression’ thing. I have ‘progressed’ in my career. I spent my twenties progressing. I am NOT a ‘high’ earner but I’m now at the ‘progressed’ part unless I want to be a senior big balls manager which I really don’t want, regardless of having children. It was never my plan or dream. My plan from going to university at 18 was to be exactly where I am and doing exactly what I do. So me working 1 day or 7 days doesn’t change anything career wise other than my pay cheque.

My DP on the other hand is on the lower end of the ‘ladder’ of career progression after a retrain and in a completely different job field. Literal opposites. Him working part time or reducing his hours will set him back massively whereas will make 0 difference to me as I am where I will probably be for the foreseeable. So I’m not missing out on my progression to ‘enable his career’. Although I am his biggest cheerleader.
He’s very supportive of me doing whatever hours I want.

I think after this thread and mulling it over all weekend I am going to stick at 3 days.

Ive spent most the weekend with dc and DP. Today I nipped out for lunch with friends for only 2 hours in total and when I got back DCs little face lit up and was so excited to see me. I’m their whole world right now and I'm always told that this time is very fleeting. My heart felt so full it could burst.

I think I’ll just switch around my working days so it’s not 4 off on the trot. We go out all the time but dc isn’t yet walking/talking so hopefully it’ll be more ‘fun’ for me as they get older. We also do want another dc soon which realistically would work better with me doing 3 days.

sorry I’m now just rambling my thoughts lol.

@Sucessinthenewyear But school is only 9 until 3 which is 4 hours a day less than a child who is in nursery 8 until 6. That’s 20 hours a week less in school than full time nursery.

And many children in school do breakfast club and/ or an after school activity. Are those parents not the primary caregiver?
Its just a ridiculous suggestion.

I never said they weren’t. I was just pointing out that there is a big difference between full time nursery hours and school hours.

Hello, jumping on the wagon!

One observation I have is that everyone tells me kids are young for such a short time but isn’t that all the more reason to work so that when they’re bigger we can support them and have progressed to senior roles so we can work OK hours for decent pay. All I can see ahead of me is needing to buy nutritious food, a house that I can leave the kids one day, football boots, swimming lessons, etc etc.