I think my 8-year-old ds might be depreseed - can anyone help???

[overthehill]

My ds is a lovely boy, but he's so lacking in self-esteem and self-confidence, and he's really going through a bad phase at the moment. He flies off the handle really easily, says there's no point in living and he wants to die, bashes his head against the floor/wall etc and shuts himself in his room with all the lights turned out as he says that everything is black. He's very bright but doesn't believe this, thinks he's too fat and ugly (which he's not) and hates feeling an oddball (he doesn't like sport & his mind works on a different level from your average 8-year-old). He has a few friends, but the friendships always seem very fragile, and he doesn't really fit in and is basically very lonely, I think. He has a love-hate relationship with his big sister (which is normal!). However, he's always been able to build up really good relationships with adults and has got on well with a succession of teachers, although he's often in trouble at school. He has been referred to a behaviour support person & did also see the school counsellor, so they've tried their best, but his basic problems remain.

I feel really scared because of his talk of wanting to die (which has been a theme for 3 years at least) but also very sad that he's obviously so unhappy and inadequate that it's because I've been too critical and not given him enough positives.

I felt so desperate this evening that I was thinking of taking him to our GP, but my dh thinks that would be a really bad idea as it would only reinforce his feeling that there's something wrong with him, and he's suggesting that if I'm adamant about going, I should go on my own.

Sorry this is so long, but I'd really appreciate any words of wisdom, and thanks in advance.

oh how sad for you all

I think I'd go to GP alone first to discuss - as your DH says, you don't want DS to fel there is something wrong with him, but I completely understand you feel you need to do something

Good luck

Sorry, that was meant to say "depressed"!

a year ago i thought ym 9 year old dughter was depressed - she was very sad , cried a lot, had problems fitting in etc - not as bad as your son sounds but I was very concerned . i read that depression is not so uncommon as you might think in pre-teens - 1 or 2 %. I think a chat with your GP on your own sounds like a really good idea - if your son needs some intervention , and it sounds like he does, then the sooner the better. Please don't feel this is your fault - guilt is part of being a mum - depression is a chemical imbalance in the brain - things can be done - let me know how you get on Xx

Hi, I have no experience in this area, but I agree that you should go alone to begin with to get an idea of how to approach the subject with him and go from there. If he's talking about dying then you should act on it of course. He must realise himself that he needs help. Good luck

Thanks for your replies so far, they're really helpful. I'm off to bed now but I think I'll contact the GP surgery tomorrow and arrange to go on my own. Part of me doesn't want to though as somehow I hope that by ignoring the problem it might go away. We do have a very good GP so that should help.

Try this charity: youngminds

They're excellent. They'll give you a one hour free telephone consultation and follow up if needed.

Please do speak to his gp about this - maybe even without him to begin with. This isn't how most 8 yr olds behave and, although some may say things like this on occasion when they are very angry, it sounds like this is more than frustration. Even if it is not depression (and it could well just be loneliness or something else), I think it does need to be addressed sooner rather than later.

I worked with depressed children and teenagers and it is truly awful to see them suffer. It is hard enough to see adults in the midst of depression but tragic that children can go through this too. With the right help though, children can do really well.

I see how your DS would be upset by seeing a doctor about this and that isn't always the best way to go. I wonder if some family therapy may help (so that he may feel like this is a family thing rather than his problem). A family therapist might also see each of you individually. I know it sounds scary and unsettling but I do hope you find some help soon.

overthehill I think it is worth talking to your GP about linking him to someone in the Child and Adolescent Mental Health team, perhaps he needs to see someone with more specific expertise than the counsellor he's been seeing. I agree with your dh though I think you should go on your own. Good luck, this must be awful for you.

Sorry I didn't reply to the most recent posts - ds was off school today for a training day & I thought it was important to be with him rather than on here. Today was much more positive, & I'm coming to the conclusion that part of the problem is he's feeling too much pressure; for instance, he's got a piano exam coming up in a few weeks & he's doing really well, but because of his lack of self-confidence he's got a terrible fear of failure & said a couple of days ago that he wanted to give up now. I think sometimes I forget how young he is as he's so 'adult' in lots of ways, but both dh & I are very much 'doers', with little time for just chilling.

Thanks for the link about Young Minds, Little Bella, I'll certainly look into that. Losingitagain, I do think that something like family therapy might be good as there's the danger that he becomes the holder of all the family's 'bad' feelings (as I think I was in my family), and by working with the whole family a good therapist should be able to change that (in theory). Trouble is, my dh is a counsellor & I'm a social worker, so we're probably the hardest nuts to crack...

Petitfilou, I'm not sure if the behaviour support person he's seen at school is linked to the Child & Adolescent Mental Health Team & I did wonder whether it might be worth talking to her, as she'd have access to her more specialised colleagues if so & I think they also do family therapy there - tho' goodness knows how long the waiting list is. The other thing about that is that you have to get over the feeling that you've failed as a family in order to get the best out of it.

I've spent a bit of time working with the Child and adolescent mental health team, I've also got a very bright boy who went through something similar when he was only 4. He used to come home from school and cry, he'd say that he wished that he was dead, it was really upsetting. He'd be very disruptive at school, have lots of stomach ache and diarrhoea. Bright children need to be around other bright children because they start to feel alone, like no one understands them and that they are too different from the other children at their school. I moved my son to a private school so that he could start again, they have other children that are bright so he knows that he's not alone. It sounds like he's so frustrated that he does not know how to handle things, hence the head butting. Gifted children often relate better with adults because they are able to relate to them better on an intellectual level. He's at his crisis point, you've spotted the fact that he needs help now and youre doing something about it. The National Association of Gifted Children has a web site where you can contact them for advice and support. They have local groups that contain families with other gifted children. He feels alone so you need to find him a friend who is the same intellectually. He really does sound like my son, we are in Derby, are you close?

Avenanap, that's really interesting and we've tentatively broached the subject of him being gifted at school as a teacher friend suggested it, but I think its hard to convince them because he doesn't always perform that well within the constraints of the (dreaded) National Curriculum & they can't see that he's gifted if he's not getting top grades - it's a vicious circle & so frustrating!

It was awful when he started school as he'd been desperate to go as he was so keen to learn, but he felt totally let down by the humdrum nature of it all & just played up the teachers. From when he was first able to speak he would always interrogate workmen & make them take him seriously: I remember one hilarious time when he was about 3 or 4 & he kept shouting up questions to a roofer & brought out a garden chair to sit on so he had a good vantage point(!) and another time when a man came to fix our boiler & he gradually stopped giving silly answers and started talking to him as tho' he would to another adult or at least an interested teenager, forgetting that he was only 3!

I'm afraid we're in North Yorks, so not that near Derby.

It really irritates me when schools do this. Just because he does not work the way they want him to it does not give an indication that they have an intelligence level beyond their years. Children live this need as much support as a dyslexic child. Sounds like it's time to start looking for a new school. Most private schools give busaries to bright children from less afluent families. I remember taking mine on the bus when he was 2. He was talking to me and asking about how the bus was moving. The man in front of us turned around and asked what school he went to, Eton? I get so annoyed when the needs of these children are not being met. I was a bright child at school, no one noticed as they were too busy doing crowd control. I spent years waiting for people to catch up so this is a big gripe of mine. I emailed david cameron last week to ask him about his policies for gifted children but was given a load of crap by one of his assistants. I don't think that the state system is able to support these children as they work on the basis that one size fits all. They stretch it for the bright ones but that's not enough. You need to help him to find that thirst for learning that he used to have. he's probably feeling very lost and apathetic. I do little projects with my son, space and dinosaurs, that sort of thing. It gives him something to look forward to. He needs to find someone like him so that he knows that he's not alone. I'll send you my email address through the message thing, he can email my son if he wants, he's just developed a new theory for the creation of the earth. Private schools are good for encouraging confidence and raising self esteem. Your education department should have a gifted and talented coordinator that can work with the school if you want him to stay there. Could do the Kumon maths/english classes if there is one near you, it's not very expensive and is an after school thing.

God, you've got to pay to send emails!

Avenanap, I'm in two minds about the gifted and talented thing as my ds is desperate to fit in & be like everyone else, so it's difficult when it's something that singles him out. I also have problems with private education as it's not just the school fees & I'd worry that poorer kids might be ostracised.

To be fair, his school has become much better since he went into Juniors, and his real low points were Reception, when his (job-share) teachers just didn't 'get' him at all (eg "He says Jolly Phonics are boring and refuses to do them, but he doesn't know then all, you know") and Year 2, when he was in a mixed Year 1/2 class ("He says he wants harder work, but he can't move on until he's done the easier stuff"). Funnily enough, in Y.2 it was actually the classroom assistant (and NOT the teacher) who said she thought he was gifted.

For the last 2 years they've (deliberately, I think) put him in mixed-age classes with older kids, and his best friend (although as I said at the beginning, his friendships are all tenuous) is nearly 18 months older than him. His teachers have bent over backwards, but I think the numbers in the class & the constraints of the National Curriculum (neither of which you'd have in private schools, I know) just hamper them too much. How old is your ds, Avenanap?

He's 8, 9 in April. He wants to be a philosopher. He skipped a year when he went back in September, new head was not impressed. They hate that, think that the teacher should be able to cope with the child and that they are better of with their own age group. He leaves next september so I'm trying to find a school with a junior school attached so that he can go back with his age group. He'll be 2yrs + ahead though! My son used to want to do the harder stuff, that's why he was moved up, he was playing up so much the teacher was having real problems. Teachers don't like the gifted kids, it's more work for them. It's good that he's starting to make friends. Is it going to cause problems when his friend moves to senior school? Joe's school has a target system, they assess each child and then give them work (maths and english) according to their needs and ability. They losely follow the national curriculum. He did key stage 1, got 100% at level 3 in everything. When he started back in september I was told that he has a level 4 at key stage 2 if he was to do the test then. I don't know what that means though.
(jouelsie)I would have a look at the Kumon, just to encourage his self esteem. I'll work out a way to send my email to you without paying the £5 (@fsmail)(that's mean)(.net). I'm probably going to get even more spam now. I wouldn't have gone private but I didn't have a choice. I had to move him, once they are labelled as the naughty kid it's hard to change and there were no schools with spaces availiable (so they said). It was this or home ed. He'd have drove me nuts.

hi over the hill ,your not alone my son was very depressed last april due to medication and bullying at school we were referred to camhs (childrens mental health) this was after he took 87 homeopathy tablets.he did not want to live he was suffering with migraines due to stress with school.he used to cry all day not know why he was crying he stopped eating and sleeping.hope you sort this all out.i have now sent my ds to a different school and he is really happy now but seeing a councilor every week to check he has no problems.also your son sounds like mine he is very bright and finds keeping friendships at school hard.

You sound so perceptive and kind. Do get an appointment on your own with a gp. Can you collect together a list of incidents and things he says, to somehow get across to them the gravity of the situation. You are concerned because something just isn't right and you know it. Yes?

Ignoring problems only works on ones that do solve themselves...some just don't go away and do need tender and careful attention.

Be kind to yourself and family too, warm baths, favorite films, food, games, whatever helps you all to be friends with eachother. I guess now is not the time to get shirty about whether clothes have been put in the correct washing basket, if you see what I mean.

Avenanap, how strange - my ds is also 9 in April! I'm not sure about him actually skipping a year as he's quite immature emotionally; I was moved on to secondary school a year early & found it very tough from that point of view, although I had no trouble keeping up with the work.

We've actually had a really good weekend, so I don't know what to think about the GP now, although I think milou2's idea of writing down all his 'black' comments & upsetting behaviour is a really good one & I know I can't just try & brush things under the carpet. This evening he's sleeping in my dd's top bunk as her friend is sleeping over (they're 12 & 11), & the pre-sleeping silliness (as is customary with this friend!) seemed to go off without a hitch. (Oh dear, the alarm's just gone off for the midnight feast!).

Yesterday he was on stage as part of a kids' backing group for a band at a big children's event and loved that. He was also chosen to answer questions about a workshop he'd attended, & without meaning to sound arrogant, the maturity of his answers was amazing compared with some of the others who were the same age or older.

Bigdonna, your situation sounds awful, but I'm so glad your ds was OK after taking all those tablets & that things are much better now.

Must go to bed now & check that those children are not having an extended midnight feast!

April 9th? I'm sure that god mistook this date for april fools day and sent these little bundles of joy to keep us on out toes!
I'm really pleased to hear that he's having a better time. I'm looking for a new school for Joe so that he can join his own age group. It needs to be able to give him advanced work though. It's so hard trying to find one that will let him do philosophy and astro physics. Funny that! Sounds like your son had a good time on stage. Are there any theatre groups that he can join?

April 17th here, but my parents were married on April Fools Day, so some link??

Ds does go to a drama club at school that he loves -although I was surprised when he said he wanted to join. The thing yesterday could have gone either way - as is true for most things with him - so I was really pleased that it was so positive. When he grows up he wants to have a restaurant with an allotment attached so that he can grow all his own food and cook it!

The thing about him is that he never fails to surprise me even though I've lived with him for 8 3/4 years eg when he was 7 we went to a place where there happened to be a Santa, and he told him that he wanted a sandwich toaster for Christmas - I think Santa was a bit flummoxed!

Allotment sounds cool. Have ou thought of letting him grow some vegetables in your garden? Might make him happy to see the results of his efforts. I can understand a sandwich toaster. Joe started crying yesterday because he wanted a ham and cheese toasty for lunch. It was quite sad . The kids addicted to LEGO. It's all over the house. He's either building star wars stuff or reading. I hate LEGO. So messy and so painful. What sorts of things does he enjoy (apart form cooking and bands)?

I have not read any other posts and am answering from my gut instinct from a parent who has been through this.

My ds was aged 8 when he became very, very depressed. Our GP (who was fantastic with him) referred us to CAMHS. They saw him and talked to him and they were able to diagnose that he was in fact clinically depressed and he was prescribed anti-depressants. They also went on to diagnose him with Aspergers, which, at the time, I wondered what on earth they were talking about as I had never heard of it. I know lots now.

It is DEFINITELY worth taking your son to see your GP and asking for a referral to CAMHS. I do not mean to imply (it is late and I am tired) that your ds will have any additional diagnosis from this visit, but CAMHS can definitely help children who feel they have little or no self-esteem.

I am very glad I took my ds to our GP and he got lots of help.

This must be a very frightening time for you and for him.

Take care.

He was part of a wonderful kids' allotment group & grew loads of stuff, but unfortunately he could only go for 2 years as others are on the waiting list. The plan is for dh to work an allotment with him, but whether he'll get round to it is a different matter.

He enjoys music - although thought of his Grade 1 piano exam made him go into meltdown - & has wanted to learn the chuch organ ever since he was about 3. He's just started the trombone(!) & also likes African drumming, which they do at school on & off. Dh has resisted his calls over the last 5 or 6 years for his own drum kit... He hates sport but loves computers & anything technical, and he's helped his teacher on a few occasions when the computers or other equipment has gone wrong. He recently identified the problem when our boiler packed up & when the burglar alarm woudn't stop ringing one time at midnight .

He loved the Harry Potter books & also Dad's Army(!) & Wallace and Gromit, but although he loves books, he prefers to have them read to him as he's a bit too lazy to read them to himself. He's never been that interested in playground crazes such as Star Wars & Lord of the Rings, although he does like Doctor Who, but he's trying to mug up on them as he's desperate to fit in.

Can you grow some things on your back garden? potatoes are really easy.
Could ask the school if they can set up a LEGO club, that's quite technical. Is there a local college or university that does electronics? Iv'e been talking to a lovely Oxford Uni research fellow. She did a project at home about snails and her mum took her to meet the team at the Natural History Museum. She said it's one of the best things she's ever done. You could try giving him some projects on electronics, get in touch with a college/uni or local firm and see if they can help your son test them out. You can but try, people are nicer than we give them credit for.
Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy is a very good book (according to Joe. I have not read it . It's ok to read to him. It probably gives him some quality time with you and makes him feel secure. I think the craze is Star wars, it is at Joes school. It's hard for me to know what he's talking about so I had to watch the films. Top trumps are always good for making friends. Are they allowed to take them to school?
the drama group should do wonders for his self esteem and confidence.

We have grown tomatoes and potatoes in the past and could do so again this year, but knowing him, he'd want something more exotic(!). He first became interested in gardening when he was invited to join a gardening club at school when he was 5, & he absolutely loved that. They've recently restarted that and he's doing that now, but i think that's for a limited time period so more kids can have a go.

Our former next-door neighbour actually passed on an electronics kit with 200 things to make, & he loves that but needs help with it as it's quite complicated - and the instructions are too small for me to read! A friend has a partner whose social skills are quite poor but who's good at that kind of thing, and ds realised this early on as he's very perceptive. He always asks for this man's help with such things when we see them, which is positive for both of them - eg on Boxing Day he was kept busy helping ds make a liquid-powered clock & dynamo torch. (Very interesting reaction with the clock: ds put the copper diodes in some orange juice to power it but accidentally left in the batteries as well [it was supposed to be either/or], and in the morning the orange juice had turned bright green!).

Don't mention snails: ds decided that he'd buy dd one for her 11th birthday and get one for himself, but a year later he'd lost enthusiasm - and she'd never really been interested in the first place! - so we had to give them away as dh and I were just periodically throwing in some food & water & doing nothing with them.

He does quite like Lego, but K'nex is apparently more popular at school, and he did get some for Christmas & likes doing that - although he never really plays on his own, unlike dd. He did talk about taking up chess and joining the chess club at school, but he's not mentioned that lately.

The difficulty in that is as she gets older she spends less time with him, and they did used to spend a lot of time together in the holidays, especially performing plays - which sadly seem to have stopped now. These were great as they made use of ds's technical skills, with him eg constructing complicated pulley systems for the characters (dollies), & he liked being the sound technician, with them both painting scenery, designing the programme, making props, producing popcorn for the audience and performing the finished product.

He did get given some U-gi-oh! (not sure how you spell it) cards some time ago, but isn't really into cards at all - or any of the other crazes, unfortunately.