I think my 8-year-old ds might be depreseed - can anyone help???

[overthehill]

My ds is a lovely boy, but he's so lacking in self-esteem and self-confidence, and he's really going through a bad phase at the moment. He flies off the handle really easily, says there's no point in living and he wants to die, bashes his head against the floor/wall etc and shuts himself in his room with all the lights turned out as he says that everything is black. He's very bright but doesn't believe this, thinks he's too fat and ugly (which he's not) and hates feeling an oddball (he doesn't like sport & his mind works on a different level from your average 8-year-old). He has a few friends, but the friendships always seem very fragile, and he doesn't really fit in and is basically very lonely, I think. He has a love-hate relationship with his big sister (which is normal!). However, he's always been able to build up really good relationships with adults and has got on well with a succession of teachers, although he's often in trouble at school. He has been referred to a behaviour support person & did also see the school counsellor, so they've tried their best, but his basic problems remain.

I feel really scared because of his talk of wanting to die (which has been a theme for 3 years at least) but also very sad that he's obviously so unhappy and inadequate that it's because I've been too critical and not given him enough positives.

I felt so desperate this evening that I was thinking of taking him to our GP, but my dh thinks that would be a really bad idea as it would only reinforce his feeling that there's something wrong with him, and he's suggesting that if I'm adamant about going, I should go on my own.

Sorry this is so long, but I'd really appreciate any words of wisdom, and thanks in advance.

OverRated, yes, I'm off to see the GP on Tuesday, & I think I'll jot down some of ds's worst moments so I don't forget. Stuffitllama, no chance to get on the computer earlier in the day with children hogging it and we've been out this pm and evening, hence no reply before now, so don't worry, it wasn't something you said; in fact, your experience is really encouraging, so thanks for sharing that.

When I think back, I was quite like ds myself when I was that age, & I've just remembered that I was somewhat scraping the bottom of the barrel to assemble a quorum for my 8th birthday party. I was also very naughty at school and consequently sent to secondary school a year early because the teachers thought I was bored, but that was a mixed blessing as I was emotionally immature (like ds) & it took until I became a teenager (the wrong way round!) for my behaviour to improve.

I didn't think my parents loved me and I wanted to be part of a different family, whereas ds says he doesn't want to change his family but he hates himself and wants to be different. I remember thinking about dying in terms of the fact that my parents might actually be sorry if I died - but I don't recall ever actively exploring ways of doing it like ds, which is what makes it more scary.

Oh overthehill, I'm not sure what to say but I do think it is good that you can identify with how your DS is feeling. I do hope the GP is able to help and offer some support. I think a list is a good idea.

This must be exhausting for you - please do take care of yourself.

Can only echo please speak to your gp. They may recommend a referral to a local child and family centre. I trained in one and we are very wary of labelling any child, its more about getting them to open up to another person, who is trained and can approach difficult subjects more easily than a parent. Children this age can and do get depression and if hes talking about wanting to die I would see GP asap and if necessary push for a referral. Children this age can also be trained to better understand and manage their feelings and thinking patterns to reduce depression, called cognitive behavioural therapy, and he sounds very bright so may well respond to this. Please let us know how you get on whatever you decide.

Quick update: we've had a comparatively calm w/e, but it's back to school tomorrow so potential for more anguish. Getting worried about GP appointment on Tuesday, and if ds is referred to CAMHS, how can we be sure that he will relate to - and therefore open up to - person he sees? He liked previous school counsellor, but says he doesn't trust current one so won't tell her important things.

overthehill why are you worried about GP appt? They are there to help. But be assertive if you don't feel you are getting anywhere. Obviously there are no guarantees that your ds will like the person he is referred to (if he is referred) but what on the other hand, if he really does like them and opens up and it is really helpful (there you see - that is CBT in action for you )?

It'll be ok

overthehill - I agree with so much of what avenanap says. Do contact the NAGC - at a local level they hold meetings where the children (Explorers) do interesting activities and the parents can chat and support each other. At Explorers they are all "different" and all coping with that in their own way - there is an acceptance there that they often don't find anywhere else.

Just wondering how you got on today, overthehill. I'm sure whatever happened, it was rather emotional and a difficult day. Been thinking of you.

A quick but belated update - it's dh's birthday today so no time on computer last night as too busy making cakes, wrapping presents etc... Went to see GP, who was really supportive as I expected and offered to refer ds to the children's mental health worker, a man, who he said was really good. I'd meant to speak to his teacher first as the school has been really supportive, so the GP said to get back to him when I'd done so. Trouble was, ds was upset again that evening so I mentioned this to him & he said he didn't want to talk to anyone else as he didn't like sharing things with strangers and just wanted me to help him sort things out (not daddy, who he said was horrible)! I tried to say that I'd asked for outside help as I couldn't do it, but felt awful, as though I'd let him down.

I thought that maybe I could tell the GP to go ahead & see if this chap would be happy to see me to give me some tips, but I think that would be hard for him without seeing ds. It's awful because he just seems so fragile, and this am he couldn't get the present he'd bought for dh (an attachment for his mobile phone) to work so went into a decline, saying how he was useless & wanted to die etc, rather than just accepting that it could be taken back to the shop & swapped if it was the wrong model. Of course, I got upset again, which creates a vicious circle in that he then gets upset that he's upset me. What a mess.

Flamingtoaster and avenanap, had a very interesting exchange this evening with a friend who's headteacher of a primary school that has ditched the National Curriculum & received an Outstanding Ofsted report: apparently she met up with the head of ds's school at a conference & identified ds in some photos that he had of the children. She remarked that he was gifted, but the head contradicted her, saying he was intelligent but not gifted. Honestly, when she told me this it made me feel like going down to the school first thing tomorrow and withdrawing him ! It's strange because the one person at school who has volunteered the opinion that he is gifted is a dinner lady cum classroom assistant that he doesn't like as he thinks she hates him.

overthehill don't let that conversation upset you - maybe the Head of your DS's school didn't like anyone else "diagnosing" your DS, particularly someone who "knew" DS.

You could try phoning parentline: www.parentlineplus.org.uk/ as they will have had experience of children feeling as your son does and might have some suggestions you could start with.

Have you tried phoning the NAGC Helpline? Gifted children are as diverse as any cohort of children -but some do suffer depression and low self-esteem so they could talk to you on some very specific aspects of the problem.

One thing I found with my daughter who went through a period of extremely low self-esteem was that I had to be very, very careful how I phrased things. When something didn't work or went wrong I couldn't say anything which implied next time she could do something dfferent for a better result (which was an implied criticism). I would always praise the effort which had gone into whatever it was. I also came up with the concept of "revision present" for exams which will illustrate what I mean - as soon as revision was finished or immediately after the exam was taken if that was more convenient, I would get DS and DD to choose a revision present in recognition of the effort they put in. There was never any reward for exam results no matter how spectacular other than "well done".

Hope you can get your DS feeling a bit happier soon.

overthehill You sound sad - you need to stop yourself getting upset when ds gets frustrated. Would it help you to see a counsellor too? I only say that as I know it helped me so much. It wasn't a panacea but it really did help. I wonder if there is any chance that you could see your ds's potential chap with him to start with - that would be you helping to sort him out too, as he has asked. If you showed you trusted this man, maybe ds would? Or maybe talk thorugh your concerns with him before ds sees him? I'm sure he's come across this sort of situation before. Hope you got the article I CAT'd to you.

Thanks very much for the article, petit; we've been out this evening so I've only just downloaded it, and at a glance it looks really interesting. Sequel to yesterday's conversation with teacher friend: ds & 3 others were in Good Work Assembly this am for the piece of (IT) work that was shown at the conference where he met my friend - making a powerpoint to do with Victorian inventions and adding hyperlinks, speech, music etc (guess whose brainchild that was!) - and the head said when he told the other teachers about it, they said that their pupils wouldn't have been able to do it - so some positive feedback at least. Flamingtoaster, head is quite full of himself so probably didn't like my friend making judgments about one of "his" children.

Ds in good form today as had embarked on his latest project: he's set up a website for his class(!) and they apparently think this is really cool, with 2 cool boys having given him their e-mail addresses.

this thread has made me so sad for all of you involved, parents and children. this must be so hard for you all. sounds like your children are very lucky to have parents like you. hugs to you all and hope you all get the help and support you need
x

I've just caught up, I hope you and your children are well overthehill. The head sounds like s/he's got no idea. How's things now? Website sounds like a fantastic idea.

Hi overthehill, how's your little boy this weekend, hope you've all had a good one?