AIBU to be pissed off with Beaver leaders

[Ladyday1995]

DS 6 has been involved with squirrels and then beavers for over a year and really enjoys it. There’s been a few things which have gotten up my nose over the last year or so. Firstly the leaders seem to treat the group as some kind of super exclusive club where they don’t want parents to be involved, I have offered my help several times in the past and also volunteered to be involved with hikes etc, they don’t want to know. Secondly, during a trip to a designated scouting camp, DH and me went for a short walk around the grounds and discovered two things which disturbed us: 1) a burnt out van 2) a set of medieval stocks.
This really creeped us out and we kept DS off for a few weeks while we mulled it over, we decided we wouldn’t allow DS to stay on any overnight trips and accompany him on any day trips. Anyway, today during a church parade, one of the head scout leaders (in front of everyone including our vicar) made a huge deal out of DS necker, taking it off claiming it was untidy and hadn’t been done properly? It was mortifying for us and really offended us. Still we smiled and said we’d take more care next time. Then after the parade, another main scout leader wandered over to us, condescendingly tapping his shoulders, me and DH were perplexed, asked what do you mean?, he tells me I have sewn one of DS Welsh flag badges on the wrong way - then proceeded to say “I’m not OCD or anything but get it sorted by Wednesday”. This has pissed me off because I do in fact have OCD and I find this type of talk trivializes a condition I have lived with for 16 years. I will acknowledge that I have had something of a chip on my shoulder for some time about their ways but usually I just try to ignore it as DS enjoys going, but I’m really pissed off at this type of behavior. It would be different if we were pulled aside quietly and shown how to fold his necker properly, or he phrased his request for me to restitch his badges on differently. It’s a strange one, I would ideally like to move him to a different scouts group (not sure if this is even possible?) but this group does the parades at our local congregation so I would not like to cause any friction by moving him. I’d love to hear opinions on this, also maybe opinions on the stocks and burnt out van at the scouts camp - is this a normal feature on these pitches? Thanks for reading

DH and me went for a short walk around the grounds and discovered two things which disturbed us: 1) a burnt out van 2) a set of medieval stocks

Sounds like the setting for a teen horror movie.
Did you ask what the heck was going on? It all sounds very sinister.

That’s really creepy… sounds like a setting for a horror film.

i wouldn’t want my child at beavers age going to a sleepover anyway.

id tell mr bossy scout to mind his own business to be honest. He’s not the boss of you (this is what I tell my son to say to any kid that tries to boss him about)

And of course you can move Him to a different scout group!!!

Find a different group for your son . Scout / cub groups vary wildly depending on who is running them , the next one over is likely lovely and completely different .

Medieval stocks?! They must have put some effort into preserving those. Why are they a problem? Presumably they don't get used.

Yeah just change group.

We asked about the van and we’re told it had spontaneously combusted the precious week, some older scouts put the fire out. DS will certainly not be going back to these places, and we only take him to the weekly group meetings or events we can attend. I certainly don’t feel these are dangerous people, and this camp where the questionable discoveries were found is used by many different scouting groups in the area. I later discovered some new agey types use the area for dancing under the full moon and such so I wondered whether maybe this was their property?

The burnt out van is odd. Scouts is run by volunteers. Some of them have better social skills than others. My kids love it but I find you need to be fairly relaxed as a parent, which isn't for everyone.

Just remember they are volunteers who don’t get paid at all to run the groups. But of course you can move him to a different group.

At a guess, I'd say the stocks are probably for leaders to get pelted with wet sponges or something? Seems like a standard fete-type prop.

Unless they're covered in blood and you unearth old newspaper reports about beavers having gone missing decades earlier, in which case it could be a weird sacrificial cult and DS is next.

We asked about the van and we’re told it had spontaneously combusted the precious week, some older scouts put the fire out.

So teens were smoking around it and someone was careless, then.

I am a beaver leader and we do not allow parent volunteers to attend activities unless they are vetted and trained as leaders.
Beavers are taught to roll their own necker and put it on so I definitely would not be talking to a parent about it but I would only pilla beaver aside about an untidy necker quietly. I wouldn’t humiliate them.
Again we hand out pictures of how badges should be put on and I would have a quiet word with the beaver if it was in correct.
Campsite sounds odd and a burnt out van sounds like a safety risk.
Do love your child if you are unhappy or speak to the group leader about your concerns

I actually don’t think the first two points are that bad - you’ve offered your services, and they refused, and the second situation was explained.

The neckerchief and badge situation was maybe patronising, but maybe they didn’t intend it to be.

if you want to change groups, then change.

The stocks and a burnt out van will have some reason for being there, probably to do with the older scouts, but I can’t see why you’d read too much into it. I very much doubt the beaver leaders are planning to either burn a van with your son or put him in stocks.

Your offers of volunteering may well be appreciated but unneeded for the the specific thing you want to help on. I don’t know what happened for you, but it’s not unusual for plenty of parents to offer to ‘help’ with the fun trips but to have no offers of help with any of the tedious admin side of the job. Understandably, the parents who help with the drudgery are first to be offered places with things they might want to join in with. Or, it could just be that they are quite an insular group and don’t feel they need more help.

The comment about OCD was wrong. It’s awful when people trivialise something that can be so debilitating and I’m not surprised you were offended at that. In my experience of lining up for parades, there are often leaders going around adjusting children’s neckers. They wouldn’t feel the need to be rude about it to anyone who needed theirs completely redoing, but there is a reasonable expectation that parents find out how to do it properly.

What a strange post - sorry, OP!

I couldn't get worked up about anything you've posted, especially the stocks and van.. and dont understand why you kept your DS off because of them. And now you're going to accompany him on all day trips? Beavers and similar groups are about fostering curiosity, independence and sometimes being out of their comfort zone. I'm not sure it's the right group for you.

Yabu to be passed off with them and do them a favour and find another group.

This......thank you for all the hard work and hours of training and planning that go on outside of group. Scouting is an amazing thing supporting independence and allowing children to grow and experience so many things.

As me and DH never were involved in scouting we are not familiar with their practices or customs. Indeed maybe scouting is not for me, as other posts have suggested, but my son enjoys it and gains a lot from it. Why would I deprive him of something he enjoys due to my personal feelings? I was wondering if this sort of thing is normal to expect. I haven’t acted belligerently with any of the leaders, in fact quite the opposite, therefore unsure what you mean by “do them a favor and find another group”.

Err no. That’s not my experience of beavers or cubs. They always need parental assistance. Especially the beaver group.

This is your group leaders. I don’t think it’s representative of the scouts as a whole.

They sound like hard work and not kind go elsewhere

Due to the age of Beavers, I thought parents HAD to be present at any kind of overnight activity?

My DS absolutely loves Beavers but I don't think I'll allow him to go to any overnight camps, even when he's a cub. There are too many volunteers involved whom I know nothing about.

There are some pricks in scouts. Find the non-pricks because they are lovely.

I'd move groups if you don't feel it's a good fit. We moved groups when we moved house to a different area. DS wasn't really enjoying the scouts experience but when we moved groups it made all the difference. The first group was very hung up on uniform (inspection of fabric and necker obsessed) and ceremony, the second was much more relaxed and wasn't at all worried, depending on what they were doing uniform wasn't always required. He always came out looking like he had had a great time

I'm a leader too and we encourage (and welcome/plead for) parent helpers. We aren't allowed to have the same parent helpers every week though without asking them (if we think they are suitable) to have DBS checks and become leaders.

The van sounds as if it had just happened and the sticks quite likely are there for fun reasons. It wouldn't be unusual for leaders to end up in them having things thrown at them (never the young people though.). It is a bit odd that you kept him off because of these. Beavers and cubs don't leave our sight so they'd be kept well away from the van.

We do re-roll messy neckers before parades regularly by going up and offering in a polite helpful way.

The way you were spoken to about the badge was unacceptable. If we noticed we'd quietly mention it to the parents.

You can totally contact another group and join that and ask for your son's badge profile to be sent over. Your son might not enjoy it as much if he has friends at the current group already though.

Some parents don't seem to realise we are all volunteers giving up our time to run the meetings, plan the meetings and organise camps/events. I've been spoken to as if I'm a parent's employee. I help for 1.5hrs at the session each week but it's at least a 4 hour a week commitment if I added up time over a year.

Beavers can go on overnights without parents but it's common for them to not all go and personally I think they are too young.

I became a leader as my two children went and I was asked.

I'm inclined to agree with @SanFranBear

As you have established, the van burning happened recently and wasn't there when they 'recce'd' the site. I am sure, due to the fact their Risk Assessment is dynamic, they will have noted it and made sure the Beavers didn't access it as you would with any unexpected hazard you encountered on an activity.

The stocks would most likely be the kind of thing you come across at many a Summer Fete, where they are used to throw wet sponges at adults (or Explorers).

It sounds as if you find the Leader's communication style a bit brusque, but actually, I don't think it is a bad thing that the children and young people are taught there is a time and a place when you do take a bit more care about your appearance. I loved the fact my dc were taught to iron their neckers in cubs, and yes, it is a uniform, so badges really ought to be put on the right way up / in the right place.
None of us know how much 'the way he spoke to you' is down to perception.
Everyone in Scouts is a volunteer, and - just like in society - some people have a nicer manner / better communication skills than other people.

If you don't like the Group though, of course you can try another. They might not have spaces, due to the difficulty of retaining volunteers when they get so much negativity from a minority of parents (see other thread running tonight about volunteers and parents).