11yo son is complete arse and I am fed up of him. Constructive suggestions please

[IScreamAtMichaelangelos]

DS1 is 11.5 and a bit of a dickhead. He routinely insults me (mostly me), his dad and brother, calls us names, insists we're awful, overstrict, hideous parents etc. I find this very difficult to cope with and it doesn't help that DH thinks I should be able to just ignore it. I'm not going to just ignore being called a fat biatch, am I 🙄

Advice please, kind Mumsnetters. How to deal with this in a way that a) doesn't escalate the situation to confiscation of phones but b) doesn't let him get away with being a twat?

I can't just look back at what my own parents did because they (well, my mother) tended towards smacking heads into walls and so I never said boo to her. I don't want to go that way with my own kids but he is making it very difficult to keep my composure on am hourly basis....

Help!

Yes, you do have a DH problem. My DH's most significant anger at DS is reserved for when he treats ME badly.

I feel your pain. I have one exactly the same age and while the insults are less extreme, it's like jekylll and hyde over here sometimes. I refuse to engage when he's being unpleasant. It's taken quite a lot of work to get to this point and I do not manage it 100% of the time, but I'm there. He will be shouting at me, telling me I'm horrible, refusing to listen etc so I just stop. I walk away if I can. In the car, I'll turn the radio on and just not listen or talk to him. Depending on the moment, I might say something like, "I will not engage with you when you are like this" and walk away. Of course, this also means that whatever it was he was wanting or not wanting doesn't happen because I'm not even going to discuss with him.

It helps a bit.

The 500 WhatsApp messages telling me I hate him or he hates me are upsetting but I'v learnt to ignore those too.

I agree.

It's hard to do but definitely catching them when they are being good and saying something like...

"I was really pleased when you helped me with the tidying, when you asked how I was, when you sorted your own lunch out, when you helped your sibling, when you picked your cup up and put it away"

Really small things being noticed and then thanking them.

We have our moments in this house but I rely on DH backing me up. Sometimes he's on it sometimes he needs reminding but he would not stand for me being disrespected and called a bitch.

When I'm wrong I say sorry (I don't always get it right). When they do wrong we calm down and have a chat but apply sanctions and explain why. When they are good it's rewarded. Consistently.

I think your husband is right. You need to try and ignore it and not get offended. You know that he doesn’t actually think you’re a fat bitch, right? He’s lashing out and you’re the easy target.

My DD was truly awful from 11.5yrs to 12.5yrs. Thankfully she has now pretty much come out the other side. I reacted like you for the first 6 months. I was furious and hurt by her behaviour. I tried every punishment in the book. Every day in my house was like a war zone. It dragged the whole family down.

A good friend of my husband’s with 4 wonderful teenage daughters advised us to just ignore all the bad stuff and really focus on the good stuff. At first I thought it was ridiculous “hippy” parenting and would never work. But what it did do was improve the atmosphere in the house 10 fold.

I don’t know if the technique worked or if she just grew up and out of that phase but what I will say is that your current technique of losing your temper and punishing is not working so it would be worth trying something different for a while.

good luck x

And that's pretty much a mirror of you and your ds. He just doesn't have the impulse control yet to keep the thought in his head or to write it down

Your husband is as much a problem as your son. You should be a united front.

Your son’s behaviour is appalling OP, and don’t let your husband convince you otherwise.

Your main problem here is your husband OP. You both need to be reading from the same page and it sounds like he undermines you from what you have said.

Your son sounds perfectly normal for an 11 year old. Don't accept rudeness, especially when you are not rude to him and get your bloke on board with you or this will not go away.

My 12yo doesn't name call, but does speak to us with a really disrespectful attitude from time to time. Although I think that going in confiscating everything can sometimes be detrimental and escalate arguments, and keep you all in a really negative loop of interactions, it is important to remind them every single time that their attitude is not on and you expect a basic level of courtesy and respect. We reinforce the boundary and disengage immediately from the conversation if she can't moderate herself. It sounds a bit wet, but is working.

I will try this, thank you!

Plenty of them too, sadly. However for various reasons I don't feel I can do much about it atm.

I agree.
I also admire your restraint thus far OP. If one of my dc called me a “Fat Bitch” the scorched earth would be seen from space.
Your DH is being a twat and needs to back you up, would he think it was ok to call you a “fat bitch”? Would he expect you to want to stay married to him if he did this ?
Your son needs to know now, that speaking to people like this means no good relationships, no good friendships or anything else. No girl would want to date him etc.

Thanks all for posting, I really do appreciate it. There are some great ideas here and some simple enough that even I might remember them in the heat of the moment and apply them well 😂

Other people and school routinely say he's lovely and polite. I'd like video evidence please!!

How can I scorch the earth though?

Take things away - confirms bitch status
Shout - confirm bitch status
Punish otherwise - confirm bitch status

Meanwhile, if I do nothing/ignore, that makes it his default behaviour.

Arghh!!!!

That isn't being a bitch, that's being a parent. So let him call you a bitch as you remove his privileges and don't return them until he shows you his behaviour has improved. Sod your useless husband!

OP you need to accept the fact you need to make some hard and fast rules and stick to them.
So what if you are seen as a bitch.
What you are actually doing is showing your child you are strong and confident parent to be able to demonstrate and teach your child respect, kindness and authority.
You will be doing yourself and him a favour in the long run.

Does he do a lot of gaming / youtube OP? My DS becomes a complete asshat after an hr or two of gaming. So we are very strict about access to it now.

In your shoes I would physically take away all technology, incl phone and TV, and make it clear that he can earn it back with good behaviour and housework. Until then he can read a book / walk to library and get another one when it’s finished. Don’t worry about confirming that you’re ‘a bitch’ that’s a ridiculous worry. You’re in a battle for dominance, this is animal psychology not rational discussion, and you need to show him on a very basic animal instinct level that you control the resources and you have the power, not him.

You may think that sounds over the top OP but tell you what my kid is bloody well behaved lol, I’m quite serious with my suggestion.

Your way of thinking and your husbands attitude is a terrible mix for parenting this situation.

If your husband isn’t up for family therapy then could you and your son go just the two of you?A lot of children’s behaviours are about communication and if you can try to improve your relationship him, his behaviour might improve without the need for increased punishments and sanctions.

Agree

He says stuff like that so often (followed by 'IT'S A JOKE, GOD') that I thought I might be overreacting :/

This is what bullies do. This is what gaslighting looks like. It is all about power and control.

Your DH needs a wake up call to back you up here. If you look at herds e.g. horses (bear with me here) the dominant leader is the one who quietly goes about and does not get involved in the little squabbles or challenges.

Your authority has been challenged - quiet authoritative action is required. Wi-Fi password can be changed, trips cancelled etc. no discussion, no negotiation.

Sorry if I'm repeating someone else's comment here.
The problem here lies with your DH.
You are on completely different pages and it sounds like you are the one who sees a problem with your son's highly problematic behaviour and treatment of you.
Your DH is undermining you and derailing your attempts at discipline.
He is doing your son no favours whatsoever.
DS needs to learn how to moderate, he needs consistent boundaries and a solid family base prepared to enforce them.

There are lots of good suggestions for dealing with your DS.
IMO your priority is getting your DH whipped in to shape.
I would say couples counselling or joint therapy with the very practical and focussed aim of establishing a sensible and agreed upon strategy for helping your son.

Good luck.

And just to echo someone else, if he does a lot of gaming, do some research. It can be a truly toxic environment. If he has unlimited internet access that needs to stop now.

OP do not let this take hold . Our daughter carried this through and we tried all the best ways to stop it and we were both on the same page in our parenting she nearly destroyed our marriage. You and your DH need to work together on this .Our DD is now 35 and is the most horrible / nasty / disrespectful person I have ever met .

Thanks, that's helpful.

He plays on Roblox with his friends a lot, usually with his phone on so they all chat as they go (I think Roblox frowns on that but meh). The door is usually open so we can hear the chat - it sounds fairly innocuous tbh. I think we could stand to reduce his time on Roblox though.

I think I will try to play more memory/card games with him - he generally just wants some sort of input (like a toddler acting up for attention), so that might help a bit.