Please can you advise - dd's behaviour deteriorates when we are all together as a family

[Countingthegreyhairs]

I'd really appreciate some advice/views from more experienced parents please because this problem is causing family stress levels to shoot sky-high currently.

Honoria Glossop - would v. much appreciate your input too if you are about pls.

DD (4.5 yrs) only child - apple of our eye, is generally well-behaved but she does have quite a "determined" character and goes through patches when she's quite defiant and refuses to listen.

Dh swears that dd is well-behaved when she is alone with him. She is definitely well-behaved when alone with me (but when we are all together her behaviour really gets out of hand) and it is starting to spoil the rare bits of family time that we spend together.

Until recently, I just put this down to normal attention-seeking behaviour but I'm beginning to wonder if there's any other explanation. Dh is very laid-back and lenient in his parenting style. I'm quite strict. Do you think she's confused?

How do others handle this?

sorry - misplaced brackets ...

Sometimes dd1 (5) will play up when we are both here but I believe it is because if she is with only one of us she doesn't have to compete for attention, when we are both here together we sometimes have the audacity to actually want to talk to each other rather than to dd, so she will often do things to get attention iyswim.

Different parenting styles are ok, provided you both agree to rules - it would only get confusing if you said no to something then your dh overruled you and said yes, for instance.

ZoeC has just confirmed exactly what I was going to say.

IMHE its almost certainly attention seeking, when you are alone with her she has your undivided attention. Whne you are together as a family I imagine you and your DH might talk to eachother and give a little attention to each other and therefore her attention is lessened. She may try to play off the fact your parenting styles are different but I doubt she's confused, but if you are disagreeing with eachother over how she should behave when you are together she may well be. It might be easier to define some consistent rules you agree on together rather than her second guessing rules and routines in 3 different situations.
I have 3 DC and when its the five of us together there is a lot of competition for attention, competition for attention normally brings out the worst behaviour in most situations.

sorry xposted with others, i think we all agree here

By way of a solution here, if she is talking when we are talking I try to get her to raise her hand if she wants to say something, then I make sure when the next break in conversation occurs (trying to make sure I don't make this too long to wait), I let her take her turn. Obviously I don't make her do this if we're not in the middle of talking about something, just as an alternative to interrupting.

Gosh - just went to make a cup of tea - great to have so many replies, thanks ...

Zoe C & Bellavita - I think that could be the problem. Dh wouldn't over-rule in my presence but he often allows dd to do things that I would not when he is alone with her ... don't get me wrong, he's not "going behind my back", we just have a very different idea of what is acceptable and what is not and haven't established rules between us.

For example, I have "trained" dd from an early age how to behave in shops ie not to touch everything and not to constantly say "can I have this?" or "can I have that" (which drives me mad). She was great at this until dh started taking her shopping and letting her run around and touch things and generally be a bit of a pain.

I feel really disloyal writing this down because dh is a great father, very involved, very loving, despite working long hours. And he is much more patient and less shouty than I am and much better at praising and encouraging dd than me too.

How do you go about defining rules together? You can't really legislate for every situation that comes up can you? Or can you? Is that what others do?

Sorry Cluttered up - didn't mean to leave you off the list - thank you too!

bump

Anyone else? Do you and your dh define parenting rules together?

Sorry to keep bumping but I want to try and start to get a handle on this before it all kicks off again tomorrow ...

Hi again. I wouldn't take my advice necessarily we define our joint rules by arguing in front of the DC whether what DH considers to be acceptable and what I don't Could I suggest you have a similar conversation but not in front of DD, just state your reasons for your rules, ie. running riot in a supermarket is not acceptable, and try to listen to DHs side of things too. I am stricter too than DH but I am with the DC alone for most of the week and a lot of my rules are to help me get through the week with 3 DC, DH comes home at weekends and is more relaxed ( although more strict about food than I am). I have explained to DH the reasons behind my rules and in the most part he agrees but we are more lenient in terms of bedtime and things like that at the weekends. i suppose in a way we have 3 sets of rules, Mummy on her own rules, Daddyon his own rules ( mostly watching a lot of TV ) and Mummy and Daddy rules where its a bit of a mix. Mostly the DC will understand different rules for different situatons and know what they can get away with with each of us. However we try to be consistent but things change as the DC get older and so therefore do the rules. DH always says he feels like he's playing catch up but for the big things like lying, talking after lights out, food (mostly) and behaviour in public we are together and consistent.
This doesn't stop the constant fight for attention but it makes disciplining the resulting bad behaviour easier
One thing that did help is that DH came on a parenting course with me, so now its his ideas or the parenting course ideas and not just mine which makes it more acceptable to him to follow. Not sure that was any help really.

oh yes Clutteredup, that really is a great help, thank you

we've had our arguing moments in front of dd too

I think what you say about having three sets of rules and agreeing on the important things is a really good realistic strategy - I think I've been a bit too controlling about how he disciplines dd and not the end objective if that makes any sense.

Dh and I have been going round and round in circles over this but I think we can agree on the important things and it will be a good starting point to know that we can iyswim.

Also, I think it would be really helpful to seek outside objective help such as a parenting course. I think I'll pursue that one ... we're both approaching this from such opposing positions (our upbringings were extremely different) and it's hard to overcome such entrenched conditioning without it getting a bit heated ... .

Thanks again

Glad to have helped, once in an argument DH told me I was really controlling and actually (afterwards, alot afterwards!) I realised he had a point so I do try to see his point of view sometimes now I am used to be in charge of the DC as its usually me with them. Parenting courses are really good if you both go, the MOthers Union will do them if you organise a group and a venue ( normally your house) You can get in touch through your local church, they are a religious organisation but do not include the religion in the parenting course, in fact the section on spirituality is optional.

Thanks ClutteredUp. My dh travels alot and so I do most of childcare and that does make it more difficult to adapt at weekends I think. I'm used to doing things my own way and then dh comes back and sometimes, in my eyes, takes over a bit (I'm v. grateful he is so involved but you know what I mean ....!!). Makes it all a bit tricky to negotiate and dd is bound to pick up on all of that ....

We live abroad (mainland Europe) but I think there were some parenting classes on offer through dd's school. Will investigate ....

Thanks again

Hi counting, sorry I hadn't seen this before, haven't been on that much.

You've had some fab advice anyway!

The only thing I would add is that you're right, it's clearly about attention. I think perhaps she's just unable to process her excitement at the 3 of you being together at weekends, it's all packed into a short space of time, isn't it...and I think it can just be over-excitement basically.

what I do think is a good idea is for you and DH to focus on each other. Not to exclude her, but is it possible that as you're clearly both such adoring parents, the sheer level of attention she is getting is adding to her excitement levels? Do you and dh ever sit on the sofa and just chat and cuddle, or read papers, or is it all about her?

I think perhaps focussing on each other more for a number of times throughout the weekend days would take the heat off the situation a bit?

I could be barking up the wrong tree completely though, this is just thinking aloud really. I'm just aware that DH and I have been very bad at prioritising each other, when we were together it's all about adoring ds and while that's lovely, the thing is with kids the more you give them, the more they want! It's only in the last year that I have taken the pressure of myself and realised that if I'm sitting reading the paper, that is still giving ds a nice family weekend and I don't have to pack it full of child-friendly activities to the exclusion of all else!

Hope some of that might be relevant.

Thanks Honoria. That's v helpful and agree about the good advice already given!!

Latterly, I suppose one of us has tended to take her out to avoid the situation described but it is an avoidance tactic and one that has without doubt exacerbated the situation.

And no - Dh and I don't make any time for ourselves at all currently so there is definitely a lesson to be learned there!!

Do you mind me asking if you and your other half have negotiated parenting rules together? Dh and I have tried doing this over the last couple of evenings and he has a very different set of priorities to me and his understanding of what constitutes "good behaviour" is also very different. It feels like we are going around in circles ...

weeeeeel, I have to admit that our negotiating of the parenting rules has been me telling DH what to do He is extremely laid back and he's happy to go along with my ideas, mostly. However if I'm honest, I expect him to trust me, basically. i have been ds' primary carer since birth and therefore in many ways i have been the one who has driven the way we approach things. It's no good someone helicoptering in for an hour or two a day and buggering up your child's boundaries....

But I think I also have learned to listen to DH in certain areas. I've learned that I'm very soppy and find it very very hard to impose definite boundaries, and DH has been able to bring me up short and realise that this is something DS needs, even though it isn't a thing I like the feeling of.

I think from what you say maybe you both need to back down a little from your positions. I'm sure it won't hurt your dd; don't forget most of what kids need to know, they learn by watching adults anyway. dealing with her in the kind and loving way you obviously do, coupled with some basic boundaries, will actually result in a lovely child anyway IMO! Let the rest go, it might not matter as much as you think?

FWIW my ds is exactly a year older than your dd and I have to say it is in the last maybe six months or so that ds has mellowed down alot and has seemed like an older child without that 'toddler' edge almost; I think now is when you're doing the last of the really hard work as in laying down boundaries and in the next year you will reap the rewards.

Well, till the teenage years, anyway!

Thank you again Honoria. All of that sounds very wise ... and gives me .... hope!!!

It's SO true about the modelling. I need to be reminded of that.

Agree I definitely need to back down and back off a bit. Dh too. He definitely has strong views about child-rearing but I don't want to intervene too much because he would love to be more involved but his job prevents that.

[Just to give you an idea: I had to laugh this morning because I found all 6" 4" of him ironing one of dd's favourite dolly outfits this morning (she had cajoled him into it!!)]

Hey, ho. Onward and upward ... Thanks very much for the advice. Don't even want to think about the teenage years yet .... hope you will still be posting then !!!

I'll be a shambling husk of a woman then, my spirit broken by living with a hulking teenager but I bet i'll still be posting!

ROFL at that image of your DH ironing, now THAT is a devoted dad

Spookily enough i have a 6"4 DH too

.. off to engage in a family activity now and put all that new found knowledge in to practice ... here's hoping ...

thx again Honoria and everyone