Teaching toddler non-binary pronouns without teaching gender stereotypes - help!

[Glycerinstrawberry]

My 3 year old is largely using sexed pronouns correctly, with the odd mistake, however two of her older cousins identify as non-binary and I'm really struggling how to explain their pronouns!

The family will want me to tell her that her cousins are neither boys nor girls, and thus use they/them, but my daughter can see that they are female and I don't want to be on her case correcting her when she's actually not making a linguistic mistake, it will upset her confidence and I feel like I'd be gaslighting her.

She knows the difference between boys and girls, I don't know how I can tell her they are neither without throwing that all into confusion and using stereotypes (which we avoid naturally).

Any tips? So far it's been largely avoided as she doesn't talk about them much, they are both early 20s but have not flown the nest and still come to all family things so it won't be an infrequent problem.

I think encouraging her to try to say they is kind. Just say x isn't comfortable being a girl and doesn't like to be reminded she's a girl, instead of saying she we try to remember to say they.

I've just realised, you don't misgender when talking directly to someone. So it's others getting offended on her behalf?

This is absolutely terrible advice. Why would you want to tell your female toddler that some girls aren't comfortable with being girls? Engage your brain and think critically, for god's sake.

And fuck 'being kind' too
Why's it always girls being told to be kind and putting others feeling before their own?

Exactly @dementedpixie

This. Be kind to your daughter. Trans people are not the only people who can expect kindness.

And fuck 'being kind' too

Except, of course, to small children. The OPs extended family should think more about being kind to her 3 yo.

@ErrolTheDragon

or, you can do the right thing and just teach kids that there are male and females. Nothing else. Ever.

when they get older they will realise that unfortunately there’s a lot of confused people out there buying into this crap that you can be whatever you want

or, you can do the right thing and just teach kids that there are male and females. Nothing else. Ever.

I was taking that part as read.

Don't correct the toddler. It someone else corrects her step in and point out that she is using the correct sex-based pronouns and isn't misgendering. By all means you use they/them/their name whatever and your DD may follow suit but I wouldn't expect or attempt to be explaining the gender issue until they were 9 or 10 at least (judging from trying to explain it to my 9 year old).

Yes quite, we've bought all the books on how powerful and amazing girls are, exposed her to a variety of female role models through our friends, but how will that stack up to telling her a woman she loves hates being a woman. I just don't want that in her head.

God, the amount of women who think it's acceptable to teach a tiny girl that we should applaud girls who hate themselves, encourage her to deny her own eyes and that 'being kind' is more important than instincts which have evolved to keep her safe! No wonder this shit show has gotten so far.

I think, as they are female, I'd be explaining that you are very keen to teach a level of safeguarding and as such want her to use sex, not gender presentation; and to be fair that must work with both sexes. Also that you don't want her restricting herself to stereotypes either, so will simply teach her sex is simply a body type which cannot change. If they don't like it, perhaps they could BeKind and leave her alone until she's much older.

@Glycerinstrawberry Sorry OP, my ire wasn't directed at you! I'm just furious that this malignant ideology has been allowed to infect every single public institution, including nurseries and schools. It's horrifying.

I think you should just be honest about what it is to be female. Yes, it comes with unique challenges, but girlhood and womanhood are also beautiful and amazing. She can do anything she wants to do and her body can do incredible things that boys' bodies can't!

As for the non binary stuff, I would probably completely ignore it at this stage. I don't think your toddler needs you to attempt to explain it to her. Hopefully what she's seeing are two young women who are smashing gender norms (ironically, given that they say they don't want to be / aren't women). Unless they're saying confusing things to her about what it means to be female? If they are, I would absolutely want to tackle that, and quickly.

I was reading a thread the other day on Twitter about high profile lesbian women who've rejected womanhood and embraced mastectomies and cross sex hormones instead. It's all so distressing.

I think we've arrived at this point because good people have done nothing. I refuse to be a 'good' person who does nothing.

This is ridiculous and sad. It's an issue that is also infiltrating my family life and I almost feel like encouraging small children to use certain language is an attempt to validate their wishes/feelings. My little one has few words yet so we go through names, objects etc frequently but there is always a lot of emphasis on what a certain person has to be addressed by. 🙄

It's not okay and I'm still trying to figure out how to handle it without causing major upset.

@Fudgeylicious it sounds like you might be in a similar situation?

I started this thread looking for experiences from others, which weren't forthcoming, but actually the advice I've gotten here has emboldened me to simply say no to family pressure. However, I am able to do that in part because realistically my child's cousin's are hugely older than her and I don't expect, and she doesn't need, for them to be a big part of her life in the future, whether or not they continue with their identity choices.

I understand your fear of upset but I have decided that anybody causing an issue is responsible for that and is less important than my child. I don't want to ever look at negative consequences for her and know I did that for somebody else's comfort.

If you can give details people may be able to help, if you don't wish to then just reading through this thread is probably helpful.

They want you to gaslight your three year old?

If it becomes an issue then explain that she's 3 and gender woo ideology is a bit beyond her

Protect your daughter at all costs. Nothing is more important.

We are told repeatedly that "trans is an umbrella term".

If you and your family want to get a better understanding of who your nieces are mixing with under that umbrella, take a look at the Trans Widows threads:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4236287-trans-widows-escape-committee-5-and-so-it-continues

I don't know how I can tell her they are neither

But they’re not neither. Your relatives are the grown ups here - they’ll have to cope with being sexed correctly. Your DD is only 3. She shouldn’t be indoctrinated into denying her own eyes.

My DD would be adamant about x being a girl she’d end up just digging her heels in and shouting “she’s a girl!!” She’d kick up a huge fuss about it.

3yr olds can’t grasp this stuff they just say what they see it’s unfair and it feels like you would be gaslighting a small child to soothe the feelings of an adult.

if they are in their 20s they need to be old enough to understand that kids will be kids especially a 3 year old. Honestly toddlers are so honestly brutal , you accept it as an adult . it is what it is

This. Personally I’d keep time to a minimum, steer the conversation from topics where it’s more likely to come up and whisk her away at any sign of “education”.

Fuck that shit. My kids have been brought up to tell the truth.

I think you have worded this beautifully.

You don't need to say anything. She's a baby and babies don't have to play along with other people's idiotic delusions (neither do adults but that's probably another debate). Why are you even giving this headspace?n