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Original poster

Non-resident mother not sticking to her contact hours

63 replies

CorDM · 15/09/2022 13:42

DP’s teenage sons stay with their mother every other weekend, Fri 6pm - Sun 6pm as per the court order instructions. DP is resident parent, his ex lives about 50 miles away.
Recently, during her weekends, she has started letting the sons go back home if they want to, sometimes by train, usually because they want to go and stay with their friends.
Last time though she took them back several hours early on the Sunday and just left them at their house (DP’s home). Each time this has happened, DP hasn’t been at home, safe in the knowledge that they’re being looked after by their mother…. He also hasn’t been informed at the time, so only finds out after the event.
Understandably he is not happy about this, as during the times they’re not with her (50 miles away from her) neither parent has responsibility for them.
Is it worth him emailing the court to let them know that the ex isn’t sticking to the court order hours and is therefore not fulfilling her parental responsibilities? Thinking about it from a safety aspect…
He could maybe look at changing the terms of the court order, but actually he wants the boys to keep up their relationship with her, and also, it gives him a break when they’re not with him!

OP posts:
NotLactoseFree · 15/09/2022 13:47

If they are teenagers, it's not strange for them to want to spend time with their friends or for her to facilitate this. As for bringing them back to your DP's h ouse, arguably, this is their main home and they should be able to be there whenever they like. At best, I think he could ask that the DC text him so that he knows if they'll be at home vs at their mother's house, but what else should they do? Is he just going to refuse to let them be in their home because it's their "mother's" time?

Andromachehadabadday · 15/09/2022 13:48

As they are teens a judge will not try and enforce that they must stay with her during their contact time. I don’t think they can even enforce that she drops them off at an exact time.

Is there a reason they can’t be in his house alone?

I get it’s annoying, she isnt having full contact time with them. But there’s often no benefit to making teens stay somewhere they don’t want to be.

It was mid teens that dd stopped staying with her dad. She wanted to be close by her friends not travelling to her dads, to stay on a camp bed. It’s not unusual for teenagers to change their own contact

Andromachehadabadday · 15/09/2022 13:50

Also, unless there’s a big load of information coming about why they are unsafe left alone at 13 and up, a judge will not view it as a safety issue.

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purpleboy · 15/09/2022 13:50

How old are they?

Tlolljs · 15/09/2022 13:52

How old are they? Could they just text and say we’re on our way home?

Creepymanonagoatfarm · 15/09/2022 13:54

A judge can't enforce access. Teenagers surely just come and go as they please?

FrazzleDazz · 15/09/2022 13:54

As PP said, if they are teenagers it will be very difficult to "enforce" any contact time. It also is worth noting as the NRP you cannot force them to have the DC during the contact time dictating by a CAR. If she is not making the most of the contact time or the DC would prefer to be back at DP's due to their social schedule etc there isn't much you can do. DP's home is their primary residence so it seems odd to put it strictly off limits when they are supposed be at mums.

FrazzleDazz · 15/09/2022 13:55

Sorry it should read as the resident parent you cannot force the NRP to have them!

Creepymanonagoatfarm · 15/09/2022 13:56

Court orders offer contact. A court can't enforce it be taken.

TheodoreMortlock · 15/09/2022 13:57

You can't "just email the court" and say she's not sticking to the order. The court isn't a referee, and will only look at an issue if it's made with a proper application.

Realistically, could he get the order changed to be more specific, or apply for enforcement - for teenagers, assuming no SEND, with train tickets, or being dropped back home alone for a couple of hours - I can't see a court interfering with that. If they lived with her full time would it be unreasonable for her to let them go on the train to see friends? Probably not.

If he is concerned he can make sure they have fully charged mobile phones and read them the riot act about making sure that he knows where they are, if not with their mum.

WeepingSomnambulist · 15/09/2022 13:59

The court order is really to ensure that the NRP gets to see them or to limit contact where necessary.
But it isnt to force the other parent to have the kids. No court can force them. A court order doesn't force them to have the kids.

If the NRP doesn't want to see the kids then the RP needs to step on or call social services if neither parent is willing to have them. With the kids being teenagers, they're at the age where court orders dont stick as much.

If your partner started refusing access then that would be different. The court order ensures the NRP can get access and if it isnt facilitated then they can take the RP back to court, but not the other way around.

MsMarch · 15/09/2022 13:59

As all the others have said - you can't dictate to a teenager where they spend their contact time.

OP - if they're at your DP's home does this mean he isn't spending time with you/won't let you come over? Because it does rather sound like you're annoyed at the DC being around.

Icedlatteplease · 15/09/2022 14:01

This is normal. Tell you DP to tell the kids to let your DP know. But they are at an age where they should pick and choose where they are

GreenManalishi · 15/09/2022 14:05

Teenagers will come and go as they please and he's about to see a whole lot more of them.

MyneighbourisTotoro · 15/09/2022 14:09

How old are they? Surely if they are teens and there’s additional needs they don’t need adult supervision?
I’d also think they are old enough to decide if they want contact or not and how little or often that contact is.

MyneighbourisTotoro · 15/09/2022 14:10

Also do his children not have mobile phones? Why can’t they just text or call him to say they are heading home or visit their friends?

GhostFromTheOtherSide · 15/09/2022 14:16

As long as they have a key so they can get in it’s not an issue. I might want them to text just so I knew they were back home but other than that this is perfectly normal.

And if they’re old enough to have a key then they’re old enough to be home on their own.

And let’s be honest, if they’re able to travel independently by train then they’re able to be home alone.

Sounds like you resent the fact they’re there and your DP feels he needs to go home. From the way you write I’m guessing you don’t live together?

ApolloandDaphne · 15/09/2022 14:19

Surely they can message their DF to let him know they are at home? I wouldn't think it would be an issue for teens to be home alone.

Waterfallgirl · 15/09/2022 14:23

As other have said, it really depends on how old and maybe how mature? But if both are teenagers then one is at least 13 so yes, they could be on their own in their own home surely.
i assume they have a mobile phone ( most do) in which case why don’t they text dad to say they are on way/ at home?

Is the issue more that DP has been used to weekends without them and now they are there?

i am afraid he should have really anticipated this would happen someday!

CloseYourEyesAndSee · 15/09/2022 14:28

What would be your intention in emailing the court? Do you think they would give her a telling off?
if they are teenagers why can't they come home by themselves sometimes?

Cameleongirl · 15/09/2022 14:51

Court orders offer contact. A court can't enforce it be taken.

Yes, my friend's DD (now 17) hasn't spent her court-ordered contact time with her Dad for a couple of years. They don't get on and he's really only interested in her brother. 😒 So, she just doesn't go. I don't think there's much your DP can do if his children are teenagers.

Original poster
CorDM · 15/09/2022 15:07

Thanks for all replies. This has nothing to do with resentment on either mine or his side - it's mostly to do with the fact that each time it happened he wasn't told, so had know idea they were wandering around on their own, and that they weren't even at their mother's overnight. If she lived in the same town it might be different. It's one thing letting teenagers do their own thing but as parents we are still responsible for making sure they are safe. And surely if it's her time with them, it's her responsibility to make sure they're safe?
Also, there is no issue at all with them being at their house on their own, it was more the fact that she just decided to end her contact time so early. And again, that DP wasn't back till much later and he had no idea what had happened.
They are 13 and 14, do have mobile phones but don't communicate with them. I agree this is an issue and something DP should tackle.

In terms of the court order, it's interesting that everyone is suggesting that now they're teenagers they can do their own thing but if he wasn't adhering to it, and not facilitating their visits to her, that would be an issue, right?

DP deciding what the next step will be, whether to just communicate with her about (not easy) or if court involvement would help him. So my post wasn't a complaint about her behaviour, more a fact-finding to see if the court would be bothered about the order not being stuck to.

OP posts:
Cameleongirl · 15/09/2022 15:11

The children definitely ought to let your DP know that they're coming home, and their mother should as well (assuming she and your DP keep in contact).

I'm afraid your DP does need to make them available for contact, but she doesn't have to take it. It's a double standard.

NotLactoseFree · 15/09/2022 15:13

I'm not sure the court would be hugely interested. if she refuses to have them, they might not like that but as the NRP I don't think they get a say.

But your DP should absolutely be getting his DC to communicate more. If they're at home when he's not expecting them, he should know.

Dartmoorcheffy · 15/09/2022 15:13

All that needs to be done here is to make sure the teenagers let you know they are coming home.

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