Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Please or to access all these features

Parenting

For free parenting resources please check out the Early Years Alliance's Family Corner.

To not register child’s birth

94 replies

orangesandlemmingz · 07/09/2022 22:34

Disclaimer this is NOT something I have done/ would do or in fact even considered, but I saw on a parenting group that this is a thing, post got removed / muted relatively soonish or else I might’ve asked is this a ‘thing’ some people do or don’t do to be precise?

I know there are all sorts of decisions in life that we might not agree with each other on and stuff but I’m struggling to see what the driver is around this? whats the ‘harm’ or danger or [insert bad word here] around registering your child’s birth.

anyone come know? I can imagine it causing a lot of issues later in life? I mean how does that child go to school or get health care as they ‘don’t exist’?

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
CateringForThree · 08/09/2022 09:00

I thought it was illegal not to register someone’s birth…..

CateringForThree · 08/09/2022 09:02

Someone Obvioulsy tried that before for the same reasons @orangesandlemmingz

Here for the Court case

VivX · 08/09/2022 09:03

You tend to find that there's an overlap between:

  • "Freeman on the land" and
  • people who feel that various governments are out to get them with chemtrails and 5G,
  • those who think the Royal family (and others) are reptilian and
  • those believe that the covid vaccines contain nanobots so that Bill Gates can track them...

It's never explained why Bill Gates would give a monkey's about what Jim Jones from down the road is up to🤷‍♀️

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

Justdancers · 08/09/2022 09:10

Ive encountered this a few times.

Sometimes it's to stay under services radar, so for example people who arent here legally arent going to make themselves known to the authorities. People who are avoiding social services, its not uncommon people who have children taken away previously and who believe this child will be removed to try to hide the pregnancy not seek medical care, and try to avoid any form of registration. It also means they can try and hide from the usual safeguards eg people noticing that a child born is never registered at school. Sometimes its desperate women trying to hold on to their baby.

The second group which is more common than youd expect is the freemans. They believe that when you sign a birth certificate you make the child property of the state, and that you are signing a contract to abide by laws.

This is an example at court where the father explains his beliefs
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jun/23/man-refused-to-register-sons-birth-high-court Searches about freeman of the land uk, and sovereign citizens will bring up the same things from all over. Youtube is very much a wormhole of people being arrested and shouting that they havent entered into a contract with the police, and arent beholden to laws.
www.thesun.co.uk/news/8024005/conspiracy-theorists-parking-tickets-debt-uk-laws/
fmotl.com/

They attempt as adults to have themselves deregistered sometimes, but by not registering the child they believe they are exempt from most laws and taxes. Its an odd rabbithole based on maritime laws, and concepts around common law.
Its suprisingly common, and gets thrown up all the time. My local council for example has a page on it to say you must still pay council tax for example.

I used to work in a court and saw many people attempt to use it to say they had no jurisdiction. It never worked in my knowledge and i dont believe there has ever been a case that was won solely on that arguement (i did see cases, where the case fell apart due to other reasons eg. Errors in police investigation, where the evidence was lost or for example the parking ticket photos werent clear enough where people attributed that publicly to the freeman stuff).

It has a deeply explotive side where people asking for help with debts, legal troubles, fines, parking tickets etc on facebook are encouraged to renounce their citizenship, and sold a complete load of lies that mean they will be expects. Facebook groups with thousands of followers, youtube videos etc will all tell them to disengage with the system, often for a price (Theres lots of people that for a few hundred pounds will give you a certificate and tell you that your no longer a citizen and now exempt) then offer zero support when it goes tits up.

In the us for example theres cases where people have paid hundreds of dollars for people to share their knowledge, and give them certificates but then not been advised this impacts their ability to claim welfare.

As described above, there are ways to get round not having a birth certificate at birth, that usually involves getting one anyway designed to support kids born into situations they have no control of. However as someone whos parents didnt register her properly by accident, its a bloody massive pain in the arse to sort, and having basic id (often the only id you have as a child) is essential for lots of things eg passports, setting up bank accounts, applying for jobs etc. Once you have other forms of id, then you rarely need a birth certificate but often you need a birth certificate to get those ones.

GreenEggsAndBabycham · 08/09/2022 09:16

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 07/09/2022 23:07

What was more surprising to me, is that a child's NI number is allocated to them at birth, via the same system.

NI numbers are issued just before a child's 16th birthday, not at birth

www.litrg.org.uk/tax-guides/tax-basics/how-do-i-get-national-insurance-number

That's not true, surprisingly. One of my DC gets DLA and the reference number on his payments (which come to my bank account) is apparently his NI number! He has been getting DLA since he was 7.

tootiredtoocare · 08/09/2022 09:23

If they're not registered they don't have a birth certificate. No birth certificate, they can't get or do anything. No GP. No school. No passport. They won't officially exist. I think it's illegal not to register anyway.

Tdcp · 08/09/2022 09:36

My mum's a conspiracy theorist and I have no doubt that if she had kids now, she would hide her pregnancy / the baby if she could get away with it.

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 08/09/2022 09:48

The number you receive when you claim child benefit is a Child Reference Number. As your child approaches 16 that's converted into an NI number. Unless the govt has it wrong, as well. So strictly, not a NI number issued at birth.

How does someone get a NINO?

Most people automatically receive a NINO as they approach age 16. Every new Child Benefit claim generates a Child Reference Number (CRN). When the child reaches 15 years 9 months, the HMRC converts the CRN into that person’s NINO and sends it to them.

commonslibrary.parliament.uk/getting-a-national-insurance-number/

AnimalCrossingHere · 08/09/2022 10:27

I would imagine this has more to do with parents immigration status than any desire to abuse?

If you register a birth you notify the authorities the parent is in the UK. There are women who are afraid to access healthcare for this reason.

CapturedLeprechaun · 08/09/2022 10:33

I worked with an English family, very chaotic home lives, lived here for generations. Mum had a 5th child in about the same amount of years, and it only came to light that she had never registered the child when the child was about 8.

Child had spent her whole life accessing NHS services without this being flagged, attended school, had lots of social work involvement, no one ever knew she wasn't registered. Just a disorganised mum who had forgot about it.

I suspect because there was social work involvement from birth, she was just added to local authority systems from the day she was born, as she was on a child protection plan from birth, and then she didn't need a BC for school applications as she'd have been on the local authority systems, and ditto with healthcare and NHS - your midwife still comes and sees your baby and has them in the system long before you register the birth! You can register the birth any time up to 6 weeks, but if you turn up at hospital with your baby before they are registered, you still get NHS services, it's just never picked up.

SMBC2020 · 08/09/2022 20:34

I didn't register DD's birth until she was 5 months old coz I couldn't really be bothered. I got sent a warning letter and did it then. She was registered with the NHS and had all her vaccinations etc but because she didn't have a birth certificate she couldn't have a bank account. Loads of people are shocked that I left it so long but it wasn't a big deal. No harm was done by her not having a birth certificate and it will be a good story to tell her when she's older!

Johnnysgirl · 08/09/2022 20:36

SMBC2020 · 08/09/2022 20:34

I didn't register DD's birth until she was 5 months old coz I couldn't really be bothered. I got sent a warning letter and did it then. She was registered with the NHS and had all her vaccinations etc but because she didn't have a birth certificate she couldn't have a bank account. Loads of people are shocked that I left it so long but it wasn't a big deal. No harm was done by her not having a birth certificate and it will be a good story to tell her when she's older!

A good story? That her mother couldn't be bothered to register her birth?
Sweet Jesus... What's wrong with you?!

FarFromHome2 · 08/09/2022 20:41

SMBC2020 · 08/09/2022 20:34

I didn't register DD's birth until she was 5 months old coz I couldn't really be bothered. I got sent a warning letter and did it then. She was registered with the NHS and had all her vaccinations etc but because she didn't have a birth certificate she couldn't have a bank account. Loads of people are shocked that I left it so long but it wasn't a big deal. No harm was done by her not having a birth certificate and it will be a good story to tell her when she's older!

Jesus. You can also regale her with the story about the tattoo you got her when drunk and why you called her Frogmella.

Did you also forget to claim child benefit, or was that taken care of nice and early.
?

SMBC2020 · 09/09/2022 05:32

No tattoos on either of us but I did claim child benefit from birth. Thanks for the judgement though! It's given me a laugh this morning!

SMBC2020 · 09/09/2022 05:55

Johnnysgirl · 08/09/2022 20:36

A good story? That her mother couldn't be bothered to register her birth?
Sweet Jesus... What's wrong with you?!

Nothing was wrong with me other than a global pandemic. Before COVID, it was a 10 minute walk to a community centre to register births and I was so looking forward to walking up there with my baby and showing her off to everyone and getting a coffee. The centre closed due to lockdown and the nearest birth register was an hour away. I'm a single mum so I couldn't ask anyone else to register her. I thought I'd wait until the local centre opened coz I didn't want to take a newborn on a 2 hour round trip just to sign a piece of paper. The centre never reopened and I couldn't be bothered to go into town to do it coz it didn't seem that important.
Sweet Jesus..... What's wrong with you that you don't understand that not everyone lives like you?

RedWingBoots · 09/09/2022 06:07

tootiredtoocare · 08/09/2022 09:23

If they're not registered they don't have a birth certificate. No birth certificate, they can't get or do anything. No GP. No school. No passport. They won't officially exist. I think it's illegal not to register anyway.

My DD had a GP allocated to her - one at my practice - before I registered her birth so that's not true.

However she was born in hospital.

RedWingBoots · 09/09/2022 06:10

SMBC2020 · 09/09/2022 05:55

Nothing was wrong with me other than a global pandemic. Before COVID, it was a 10 minute walk to a community centre to register births and I was so looking forward to walking up there with my baby and showing her off to everyone and getting a coffee. The centre closed due to lockdown and the nearest birth register was an hour away. I'm a single mum so I couldn't ask anyone else to register her. I thought I'd wait until the local centre opened coz I didn't want to take a newborn on a 2 hour round trip just to sign a piece of paper. The centre never reopened and I couldn't be bothered to go into town to do it coz it didn't seem that important.
Sweet Jesus..... What's wrong with you that you don't understand that not everyone lives like you?

Don't volunteer that story to your child as it makes you sound lazy especially if she is educated with anyone from an immigrant and refugee background.

FarFromHome2 · 09/09/2022 07:27

Your husband could have registered the birth even if you don’t live together.

Bluebellsand · 09/09/2022 07:46

My grandmother hated them. Said I'm here, that should be enough proof that I was born. What a waste of tree and paper! My grandfather did all the paperwork (including registering his children).
When she got dementia, it was the one thing that would have definitely make her angry. What was waste of time and energy she use to say.

I find it ridiculous too, but I follow the law like a sheep. I called up the registered office multiple of times, during the first lockdown. So I could register my baby who born April 2020. The London Borough he was born didn't have online birth registering option then. I did it as soon as I could have. It left me wonder if there are more parents without it now. Because they gave up chasing after them.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page