To not register child’s birth

[orangesandlemmingz]

Disclaimer this is NOT something I have done/ would do or in fact even considered, but I saw on a parenting group that this is a thing, post got removed / muted relatively soonish or else I might’ve asked is this a ‘thing’ some people do or don’t do to be precise?

I know there are all sorts of decisions in life that we might not agree with each other on and stuff but I’m struggling to see what the driver is around this? whats the ‘harm’ or danger or [insert bad word here] around registering your child’s birth.

anyone come know? I can imagine it causing a lot of issues later in life? I mean how does that child go to school or get health care as they ‘don’t exist’?

What was more surprising to me, is that a child's NI number is allocated to them at birth, via the same system.

NI numbers are issued just before a child's 16th birthday, not at birth

www.litrg.org.uk/tax-guides/tax-basics/how-do-i-get-national-insurance-number

Children do not need to have their birth registered in order to receive a passport, health care or education.
You do not need to register your child's details to access everything/leave the house with your child.
But when your children's children search their version's futuristic of ancestry dot com, it's going to ruin all the records!

Appreciate you have to be vague, was it by accident that they weren’t registered ie just didn’t know to do it? Perhaps from being refugees or illegal immigrants and a language barrier? Or another tragic circumstances or a conspiracy theory sort of thing?

Ah yes then, if you’re here illegally or overstayed etc I can see how you’d want to fly under the radar

Don’t they? When I take my kids to a and e they always ask for the name and confirm the address and check it’s the right person, how could you do that if you’re not registered?

Possibly travellers or people that home educate? Same problem with accessing nhs though. Can't see why anyone wouldn't register tbh. It also affects you getting married although no one has to do that either!

It was a choice. On paper I was WTF, but on meeting them it was clear that they were doing what they genuinely thought was best. You wouldn't expect it to be them if you met them in Tesco.

There was a Court of Protection case within the last year (I think) where a pregnant woman was forced to give birth in hospital against her own wishes to give birth at home. She had mental health issues and from memory a high risk pregnancy. The concern was that her mental illness would mean that she would not feel able to obtain medical assistance in an emergency if she gave birth at home. The judgment was that she did not have capacity to make her own decision and therefore the court made the decision for her, against her wishes.

The case was reported in the press, without naming her obviously.

That can only happen if a woman is found to lack mental capacity to make decisions about her healthcare. If you have capacity you have the legal right to make "unwise" decisions about yourself.

Once the child is born then more factors are in point.

Of course a child needs to be registered to access those things. You will be asked for a birth certificate when you register at a gp, enrolled in school or apply for their first pass port. What makes you think they wouldn't need to be registered?

Well, I’ve not heard of that case, not sure how I feel about forcing a woman to give birth somewhere she doesn’t want to, especially with or even with mental health issues, sounds distressing but I’m not familiar with the case.
i digress , that’s definitely the exception rather than norm… for the vast majority you can decline/ birth where you want however ill advised, so slipping under the radar is possible

Every year there are a handful of children whose births are not registered. Sometimes on purpose, sometimes because the families are chaotic.
Children are successfully enrolled in schools without a birth certificate, but some of these families would home-educate anyway.
If they have flown under the radar until adulthood, it can be a nightmare for young adults to create a legal identity for themselves. The NHS has published guidance on this.
faq.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/knowledgebase/article/KA-03333/en-us

Health care is optional, registering a birth isn't. It's illegal not to.

You can't have a passport without a birth certificate, don't talk rot.

It’s a freeman of the land thing. They believe the state would have some kind of ownership of their child etc. it occasionally pops up on home ed groups and gets swiftly deleted!

I registered all my DCs births but they were all born at home, and there was no record of the birth other than the midwife notes which I assume got put into my medical file. I also assume that triggered an NHS number but I was never asked to produce a birth certificate to access medical care at any point.

In fact have only been asked for their birth certificates twice so far. Once when I got passports for them and once when I opened a bank account for one of them - the other two got bank accounts without one. Never have I been asked for a birth certificate to enroll them at school, and theyve gone to four different ones over the years, never to register with the doctor. I have no idea where their birth certificates are. I had to send death certificates for various relatives here there and everywhere, endlessly, but birth certificates have hardly ever been needed for anything.

You can have a passport without a birth certificate, of course you can. It’s a lot harder, but you can’t imprison an adult person in a country because of something their parents didn’t do at the time of their birth, and say there is nothing they can do to change it! You can apply to the home office and there are various documents you can produce including letters from professionals a bit like a countersignatory, to prove you were born in the uk, you can provide other forms of ID like bills etc, just more of them, and you’d probably need to interview for first adult passport.

What does that mean though? State ownership of the child? What’s the fear? Social services involvement?

It's not so much about fear. They believe if you don't get a birth certificate you're outside the law of the land so you don't have to pay any bills and can't be imprisoned.

Google it and entertain yourself with how stupid it is. Just remember they are completely mistaken about everything they say!

ill have a google, my kids are full of colds, could use a chuckle.

why can I see these becoming more of a thing as cost of living goes up

You should read about Alecia Faith Pennington. She's an American woman who's parents never registered her birth and home schooled her. Basically there was no record of her meaning that as an adult she couldn't get a job, vote, learn to drive.

www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2015/03/12/how-a-teenagers-viral-campaign-to-prove-her-citizenship-is-inspiring-a-new-texas-bill/

Nope.

They are issued to you at just before 16 but they are allocated at birth. I know because we were given DS's when he was just over 3 years old as he was disabled and we needed it to claim various benefits for him. I was told then that they are allocated at birth, specifically (back then) when you claimed CB which every child was entitled to, I dont know how it works now when so many familes are not eligible.

It happens. It's rare, but does happen.

Usually in "alternative" communities where free-birthing, anti-vax, anti establishment etc beliefs are strong. They don't want to access healthcare or send their kid to school so those issues aren't issues for them. It's not malicious intent

The other instances I've seen it in is malicious intent- human trafficking/ modern slavery. Births are concealed, documents forged, one identity to multiple children etc.

When they are found out, they are fined, have a criminal record and the child is registered via the courts. If it's human trafficking related then obviously that's also looked in to.

They are issued at 16, but is it not triggered by registering for child benefit?

I'm sure that was one of the reasons to register for CB even if you aren't going to claim it.

Freeman on the land thing.

They believe the state will have no claim on the child.

Their other beliefs include things like not being subject to government and the courts and taxes.
And they think going to court forms a contract.

They also do things like say they are "John of the family Smith" instead of using "John Smith" as a rejection of their state birth certificate.

Utterly bonkers.

This is fascinating! I'll dig deeper in the morning, wonder if there are any books or memoirs about this.