Where am I going so incredibly wrong?

[Secondchildregret]

Ill start by saying we have a tiny house and noise travels; you can hear our baby(11m)&toddler(2y) crying wherever you are.

Our second born is dramatic, loud and whiney and always has been.

He still wakes up 7 times per night.
As soon as you drop off to sleep he is screaming waking you up again.
Ive had an absolute fuck full now.

11 months of constant 7 times every single night waking up and screaming. He still demands a bottle in the night between 12-2. Doesn’t matter how much milk he gets in the day doesn’t matter how much food he gets in the day. Doesn’t matter how much or little nap time he gets in the day.

every.night.is.the.same.shit

Our 2yo was similar but we paid a sleep consultant and they were our saving Grace and taught us A LOT. We’ve tried everything they advised this time around and nothing is working.

We can’t escape. Even sleeping in another room you’re awoken by his screams.

We’ve been to the doctors about every possible problem multiple times over the (almost) last year. Im just wishing the time away until he’s moved out. We both regret having another. We haven’t woken up naturally (either of us) once since he was born. It’s ALWAYS screamed up in some emergency sounding panic but in reality he wants his dummy or something.

My senses can’t take any more of this torture.

[BoxedOut]

@Secondchildregret

Sorry - I realised I’d spent an hour of precious sleep time on my phone so went to sleep.


Few things from the extra reply’s (thank you I really do appreciate it):

We looked into cranial osteopath when small (yes he was EMCS and came out screaming, the consultants said it was unusual and gave us an extra check the next day because of it) but I didn’t want to risk it after reading some outcomes.

It’s not a case of ‘giving in’ when he wakes for milk he won’t go down without it, no amount of cuddles/rocking/shhing/leaving/patting etc will do. The cries will get louder and louder until vomit and of milk.

He does vomit a lot, if our eldest has a bug or something and need both our attention for a few minutes and baby starts crying he will almost always work himself up to vomit within a minute or two. He was investigated for sandifer syndrome because of involuntary spasms he was having but they abruptly stopped one day (also checked out IS).

Neither me or DH have been assessed for autism but people have mentioned it to us over the years (separately) that it might be worth checking out, never did see the point because we don’t have an difficulties getting through life (until this?).

We tried everything related to reflux when he was small and none of it improved - tried the wedge under the cot mattress, we started on gaviscon which then turned into omeprazole when it didn’t change symptoms, tried different milks, lactase drops, pro biotics, coleif, gripe water on and on - like I said he also showed signs of sandifer syndrome but that abruptly stopped. He didn’t take to solids well and after 3 months of choking and gagging even at purées the GP referred us to SALT but he time our spot rolled around he was swallowing better so they just told us it’s probably resolved itself.

maybe someone nailed it with - he’s just crap and being a baby..

What does a night nanny do?
If we’re in the house we will hear it, it’s minute and the walls as thin.

If People have mentioned to both you and your DH previously that you might show autistic traits, I'd listen to that.

It's not about identifying with a label that says you can't cope with life, it's about recognising and understanding the neurological system that wires you, and how that plays out in the world.

If one of you is autistic, there's a far greater likelihood genetically of your DS being too.

If DS were to be autistic and that were contributing to his extreme sleep difficulties, you could think about:

Asking paed about melatonin liquid (not sure what age they'd prescribe this)

Seeing an OT who specialises in paed sensory issues

Cranial osteopathy - I honestly don't think it could hurt, and it might help

Try posting on the SN chat board, loads of really experienced parents on there

[RandomMess]

I'd find a highly recommended and experienced osteopath and visit because you have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

I've personally seen huge improvements in several babies/young DC seeing a cranial osteopath and others for whom there has been little improvement. The ones it helped was like day and night.

[justdontkno1]

Op I massively feel for you , our second dc was the same , I absolutely adore him and he’s the light of our lives but he didn’t sleep properly for three years and tbh it nearly killed us and we were constantly ill. He’s now 8 and still the odd time wakes but rarely . He has always had severe reflux we believe but apart from having a scope we can’t actually confirm it but all the symptoms. I have other children so it was nothing we did or didn’t do and cc didn’t work (and we absolutely tried consistently) he would eventually fall asleep and then wake up again an hour later whereas most dc don’t and end up sleeping through after a few nights of it, it absolutely doesn’t work on every child .
We went to gps , allergy tests, I weaned him of bf at night at 18 months , sent my dh in with a bottle of water , controlled crying , co sleeping, changed clothing and bedding , temp , beds , cut naps , more exercise , early nights, late nights : all done over long periods and consistently (we didn’t chop and change) and nothing worked…
One thing I will say though is my son is 8 now and has some sensory issues and will only sleep with boxers , absolutely hates pjs on. I imagine when he was a baby, in retrospect he absolutely hated onesies , sleeping bags , pjs etc . He still has reflux but can tell us now that his stomach is sore. We had a third and again nowhere near as bad sleep wise and our first was the same so I just want to stress it isn’t you or anything you are doing . Sometimes you get a bad sleeper.

[justdontkno1]

We also went to an osteopath as heard lots of positives but also didn’t work for us but worth a try.

[hobbledyhoy]

Maybe try to go cold turkey on the dummy? My DD had one when younger but we found she kept waking up when it fell out and it was actually creating problems.
Got rid of it and took a few days grumpiness but actually made a massive difference.
I feel for you though, lack of sleep is fucking brutal.

[Secondchildregret]

Yeah - I mean - my child doesn’t know how to do grumpy unfortunately. He’s whined and cried all day today. We had an hour after his nap where he was happy and clapping about but aside from that it’s whine/cry constantly. He’s had pain relief.

im just flat regretting our choice at this point

[AliceW89]

@Secondchildregret

Yeah - I mean - my child doesn’t know how to do grumpy unfortunately. He’s whined and cried all day today. We had an hour after his nap where he was happy and clapping about but aside from that it’s whine/cry constantly. He’s had pain relief.

im just flat regretting our choice at this point

Oh OP I really, really feel for you. I posted a thread when DS was 11 months (under a different name) because I literally couldn’t cope with the crying and whinging anymore, on top of sleep deprivation. The crying and whinging was worse. I could have dealt with the sleep deprivation if I had had a ‘happy baby’. I so hope for you it’s all frustration and general annoyance with the world like it was with my DS. He didn’t crawl so it took a long time, but it was like he’d had a personality transplant at about 14 months, when he walked and understood what we were saying. Within a month he became such a delightful child. Of course, he always was a delight, but fuck me highly strung, none sleeping babies are hard work. Keeping everything crossed for you x

[RandomMess]

My 3rd was miserable due to her silent reflux. Yep she slept 6-7 hours at night but no day time sleep until she was well over a year old.

It was horrid, miserable and 17 years later we haven't forgotten how difficult it was.

[Goodskin46]

💐I have a qualification in sleep medicine. It does sound like everybody (with the possible exception of the 2 year old) is chronically sleep deprived. LO has to learn to link his cycles. Could one of you book into a Premier Inn or similar for a couple of nights (or go and stay with family) while the other does the sleep training ? When LO cries go in, comfort but do not lift and you must stop that midnight feed, he doesn't need it, he is almost certainly waking for it then waking again when he wees after a big milk drink.

Assuming he is of normal weight here.

[Goodskin46]

Oh and he needs to be sleep trained for his daytime nap too.

[MolliciousIntent]

@Goodskin46 what qualification, specifically? Which regulatory body?

[Goodskin46]

www.uhs.nhs.uk/for-visitors/southampton-childrens-hospital/childrens-services/childrens-sleep-disorder-service/information-for-health-professionals/sleep-training-for-professionals

This one in either 2019 or 2020,sorry can't remember which he but can look it up.

[Goodskin46]

Also done various courses at the Evelina Hospital with this team

www.evelinalondon.nhs.uk/our-services/hospital/sleep-medicine-department/overview.aspx

[LGBirmingham]

Have you had him checked for ear infections? My ds was plagued by them. He now has grommets. That waking up and instantly screaming sounds familiar.

[LGBirmingham]

@AliceW89

Oh OP I really, really feel for you. I posted a thread when DS was 11 months (under a different name) because I literally couldn’t cope with the crying and whinging anymore, on top of sleep deprivation. The crying and whinging was worse. I could have dealt with the sleep deprivation if I had had a ‘happy baby’. I so hope for you it’s all frustration and general annoyance with the world like it was with my DS. He didn’t crawl so it took a long time, but it was like he’d had a personality transplant at about 14 months, when he walked and understood what we were saying. Within a month he became such a delightful child. Of course, he always was a delight, but fuck me highly strung, none sleeping babies are hard work. Keeping everything crossed for you x

I also agree the crying and whinging during the day is worse than the wake ups! My ds got 4 molars and 4 canines between 11-14 months and also had six ear infections. Alongside a constant nursery cold. The whining nearly destroyed me. Once the teeth all came through I mostly night weaned, which massively improved his sleep. Kept a feed after 4am as we found it mostly prevents pre-6am wakes.

My ds also hated being a baby as Alice describes. I think we post on a lot of the same threads. Every physical milestone really helped his mood in the day time.

[ReeseWitherfork]

@AliceW89

Oh OP I really, really feel for you. I posted a thread when DS was 11 months (under a different name) because I literally couldn’t cope with the crying and whinging anymore, on top of sleep deprivation. The crying and whinging was worse. I could have dealt with the sleep deprivation if I had had a ‘happy baby’. I so hope for you it’s all frustration and general annoyance with the world like it was with my DS. He didn’t crawl so it took a long time, but it was like he’d had a personality transplant at about 14 months, when he walked and understood what we were saying. Within a month he became such a delightful child. Of course, he always was a delight, but fuck me highly strung, none sleeping babies are hard work. Keeping everything crossed for you x

Reassuring to read. My 4 month old babies don’t seem to like being babies very much 😅 I am desperately not looking forward to the crawling and walking but you’re not the first person I’ve read that said their babies were noticeably happy when both happened, so maybe it’ll be a godsend 🤞