What does "please" mean (in one sentence)?

[johnd2]

Ok so bizarre sounding question and it might be triggering for some so sorry in advance. And I hope this thread is entertaining!

So we have a toddler and I want to avoid having things that you have to do "just because" otherwise how can he decide whether or not to do it?. I feel like it's important for him to understand the implications of saying please or not saying please from a neutral and non judgemental point of view.
Of course I was brought up with always say please with the subtext that otherwise you're a bad person. So that can cloud my reactions a bit.
So onto the real question, if my son asks for something without saying please, how do I suggest to say please without being judgemental or launching into a ridiculous discussion? Or do I just say nothing, and simply model it myself?

As a comparison, regarding sorry I just say "if it was an accident you can say sorry" and regarding thank you I say "if you like it you can say thank you". But please is a bit more tricky.

Looking forward to your replies 😅

Mummy can’t hear you, there is a word missing
what do you need to add ?

works every time. Even with other peoples kids when you say it automatically

You may be over thinking it..?

we simply said “p..? P..?” When they forgot to add ‘please’ onto a polite request.
otoh, we still have to say it sometimes now and they’re 9&12 so maybe it’s a shit system!

I sometimes prompt with "What would be a REALLY nice way to ask?" said in a cheerful manner. That seems to be pretty effective.

But for me, the more important thing to teach is the tone of voice when asking. A really pleasant "Could I have another glass of milk?" is miles better than a petulant and whiny "Can I have another glass of milk please!!!", in my opinion. I'd rather him perfect the tone and manner than get the words exactly "right" every time.

Please makes a sentence kinder?

Great point @HyacinthsHydrangeas that's really helpful regarding tone of voice.

Mummy doesn’t speak whiny so she can’t understand you at all. Try again with your normal voice and don’t forget the magic word

cures whiny kids and rude ones 😀

I just do a raised eyebrow

"Mum can you get me a drink?"
Eyebrow
"Pleeeeeeeease"

If we are asking someone to do something for us then we say please. It’s a way to show we don’t take them for granted like my three horrors

Your explanations are all about how he feels, but courtesy words are about how the other person feels.

We don't say thank you for only things we like, we say thanks you if the other person has tried to be kind

We don't say sorry only if it was an accident, we say it to let the other person know we are sorry we hurt them- especially important if it was not an accident surely

But at two your ds is probably too young to understand it so just do the "p p p...." thing so that he doesn't hurt other's feelings by not saying please/ thank you etc

regarding thank you I say "if you like it you can say thank you".

So if he doesn't like it he doesn't have to say thank you? That's really going to go down well in the future!

Great point about the empathetic side of it @MotherOfCrocodiles that is definitely going to be important going forward. I hadn't included that in my repertoire.

I think I'm definitely going to refine it as time goes on and as the situation warrants but I always want to have a genuine element of choice in there. A forced apology is bad for everyone involved, and almost everyone remembers being forced to apologise for something that was not fair. Sometimes he will know better then me whether an apology is needed. But I don't want my own reaction to stop me being objective.

OMG just tell him to say please and thank you and sorry for toddler mistakes… it’s a social convention and nothing bad has ever come of it.

When he’s older (upper primary at least?) you can discuss together the moral aspects of apologising.

For now just prompt him to say it every time.

i can’t stand it when kids don’t ask for things nicely and the parent looks sportingly on because little Johnny is expressing a preference not to ask nicely. FFS.

(although I have quite non conventional views about sharing BTW!)

I like that it's a nice way to put it!

‘And what do you say….?’

and when he does, I tell him well done and that when we are polite it makes the world a nicer place for everyone. He doesn’t always remember, but school do compliment his good manners so we must be getting it in there to an extent!

Well, to be fair my whole point is that he never "has" to say thank you, the idea to that he can decide whether he should himself. I'm assuming he will have empathy and logic in order to decide.
Otherwise taken to the extreme you get "my neighbour keeps cutting my hedge and I keep saying thank you but actually I really want it to grow taller" type threads on here

I never asked my daughter to say please or thank you but I always used these words when talking to her and she picked them up herself. not sure if that will happen with ds so let's see.

If she orders me around or is whiny I say something like "could you ask me that please again politely" or "please use your normal voice and not your whiny voice". Then she usually puts on her most sugary sweet tone and asks me so sweetly that we both start laughing. We only do this when she's in a good mood. When she's tired or upset I don't push the point and most of the time she is very polite anyway.

Anyway, I wouldn't overthink it so much but yes, of course, model it. In addition there's nothing wrong explaining that saying please and thank you shows that you don't take the other person for granted and makes the other person feel appreciated. And you can just say : "could you say "please" when you ask for something, please?"

Thanks all, done helpful replies already, and to those mentioning he's a bit young at this stage, that's definitely a good observation.

Thinking about it, at this stage it's probably more for my benefit (if I think he "should" say sorry/please then I'm going to feel annoyed if he doesn't) and also keeping myself open for the future conversations mentioned.

Something I'm keen to avoid at this stage is if he's having a hard time it seems ridiculous for me to pretend not to hear him until he says please, I don't think that's going to help him to trust me. I am after more of an "I hear you but if you say please it tells me you don't take me for granted" (thanks@HerRoyalNotness )

In my opinion 'please', 'thank you' and 'sorry' mean absolutely nothing when they are made to be said. Repeating a word or saying it only because they know they can get what they want/get away with something is pointless.

Thanks@NotthatKindofpickle I don't have anything to add but that's super helpful

Thanks yes great point, and worse still, if saying sorry is used as a de facto punishment then it prevents the ability to apologise later in life as it is triggering to do so. So it's actually counterproductive.

I am a speech and language therapist and teach things like this (to older children) as part of broader functional communication, within life skills such as shopping and making phone calls. The justification I give is that people like it when you say 'please.'

I always found "do you know/remember the magic word that makes people smile" worked to acknowledge they'd spoken & to prompt a please or thank you, or a conversation about why it was important, which was something I kept simple & age appropriate, in that they were kind words to use & could maybe even make a sad person smile & feel appreciated. We did treat sorry differently though

@RockinHorseShit nice, I like that positive focus on it making people smile!
Regarding the sorry treatment, do you mind expanding on that? as I'm interested in your general approach to apologies as well

I used to just make a ‘p’ sound and smile.
’Please’ always followed.

It’s a common thing to do - the children I teach at school all seem to know what ‘p?’ means!

I used the 'what's the magic word' with mine, which worries along with thanking them for being so polite when they were.

DGS2 made me laugh so much when I said it him. Scrunched up his wee face, then said

I know! Babrabadabra.

Close, so close.