Expecting 2.5 year olds to be obedient??

[SheepingStandingUp]

Like they literally just look at me and decide if they want to obey or not.
Telling them to come here so I can change a nappy, not to pinch toys off a sibling, not to throw their food on the floor in a glorious rain of cereal to be crushed under foot for the sound, not sitting down to eat, not leaving the kitchen when I say, just basically everything!!

And then when they don't how do you even discipline a 2.5 year old?

But then they'll be 3 soon then 5 then 10 and what of they don't ever do as I tell them!!

Fine, I'd like them to acquiesce my every request, from love.

Ill take a look at that account

Then you need to talk to them as though they are toddlers. Not as if they're adults. They see no reason to obey you, you have to make it worth their while or trick them into it. Then when they're older (like, in several years) and they have the capacity for reason and logic, you can work on them understanding why they should be doing as you say.

Honestly I think 95% of your frustration stems from a lack of understanding of toddlers!

I have a problem with the words obedience and 'being obeyed' used here.

They are people not trained dogs. And as such they should not 'obey' their mother all the time.

Yes it would be nice if they complied with requests most of the time. A little humour and distraction and praise works so much better at that age, in my opinion, rather than expecting blind obedience.

Honestly I think 95% of your frustration stems from a lack of understanding of sleep because of toddlers!

Have you considered sleep training? 2.5 is far too old to still be causing broken sleep

2.5 is far too old to still be causing broken sleep

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Not sure what the laughter is about. An NT 2.5yr old should be capable of sleeping through the night. Take a week, sleep train, and then if sleep dep is the issue you should feel much better.

You can't force someone to sleep - could someone force you? My 2.5yo wakes at 5am - no one can make her sleep longer (as much as I would like that!) I can put boundaries in (stay in your bed until 7am, you can have some of your books etc) but I can't force her to stop chatting away so that it doesn't wake me up! Sleep training isn't a magical cure for normal toddler sleeping behaviour.

@SheepingStandingUp I think expecting total compliance is equally as futile. But I've found routine and boundaries really help - DD is pretty good at helping to tody her things away before lunch for example because it happens every single day and there's no food until it's done. I help her where needed but generally she just gets on with it because it's part of the routine. I also like natural consequences and following through with them because it makes sense for them. But it can be challenging enough with just one toddler so no wonder you're feeling frustrated with toddler twins plus an older one to think about as well!

I work in Early years and I can spot a mile off the toddlers that aren’t getting enough sleep. It’s really apparent in their behaviour. And I always advise sleep training, obviously it’s up to the parents if they take that advice or not.
I also believe in boundaries and we have them in our Nursery school otherwise it would be total chaos. Again I can easily spot the children who don’t have boundaries at home.
OP, decide on your boundaries, be 100% consistent (even though that can be bloody hard work for you), and eventually you will see results.

Are you copying parenting from your own parents?

Can you remember you DO everything and COME when you were told?

How's your relationship with them?

I work in early years too and completely agree. Making excuses for a child because of their age isn't helpful either. Children are always happier when there are clear boundaries and all this "speaking to them out of love" sounds like a load of bollocks. Unless a parent doesn't love their child, they will always be speaking out of love.

I've found saying things like "leave your sister alone" , "put the toy down gently" works better than 'don't' hit your sister/ don't throw the toy. Kids often don't acknowledge/hear the "don't" in an instruction and instead just hear "hit your sister" "throw the toy", doesn't work for all but worked for mine.

I find threats and distraction work best. "The dragon will eat you if you do that" then cue 20 min conversation about what the dragons name is (Dave?) And what he likes to eat other than DS (celery, garden fences etc)

I agree that basics such as come here, stop, wait etc should be learned and obeyed. Not through fear but because they understand why people put boundaries on them.

Distraction is fine for some examples but I've seen some children have absolute breakdowns in their teens because from a young age "do X" actually meant. "Ignore me and I'll turn it into game and when you've decided you want to comply we'll carry on our day".

They find come hear 5/6 and being that doesn't fly in school and come secondary they absolutely do have to behave like the other 1000 students in the school. No one is going to wait for them to decide when they'll follow basic, simple instructions.

For 2yo it's simple.

Reins if they don't walk holding hands or put in buggy.
Come here and get dressed - refusal they go out as they are in pushchair.
Come here and get at the table - they don't then dinner or whatever carries on without them and they miss out. If they come later put them at the table with no comment and if nothing has happened.
Refusal to tidy toys - no more come out and when in bed you tidy up the box and out it away for a week or so.

Natural consequences are by far the best way to teach people why they need to comply to basic rules and social norms.

But you also need to learn to listen to them. So if they refuse to out shoes on ask why. They may be too small or something. And children need to learn to communicate their needs as well as learning to adhere to basic social norms.

Mine never tantrummed either.

Also in education and knew it wasn't the norm.

Wasn't surprised when he was diagnosed with asd.

But for me that's certainly been an advantage having a child who follows rules to the letter (although I'm also very aware how vulnerable that can make him and have worked on it)

I pick my battles (only really making an issue if something is a direct threat to their safety or the safety of others), and when I gave to do it I combine consequences (if you keep going out of the park we'll have to go home) and emotional manipulation (Daddy/your cousin/your teddy/the TV will cry if you throw water on him/them)

But you also need to learn to listen to them. So if they refuse to out shoes on ask why. They may be too small or something. And children need to learn to communicate their needs as well as learning to adhere to basic social norms. that requires a level of wordy conversion we can't have, I mean I'm probably redirected to be better at interpreting a scream but unless they say get up and fetch a different show because they think it's welly day, we're not having a discussion about what's wrong

How To Talk So Little Kids Will Listen: A Survival Guide to Life with Children Ages 2-7

Not used it myself but have heard good things about this series of books.

Though it's very possible it's just one of those phases you grit your teeth through till they develop out of it and things slowly improve and all the consistent parenting and rule reminding suddenly comes together.

Thanks Mercurial. T2 did actually just look at me contritely and obey when I told him to get down from the table he was standing on, so maybe my parenting isn't as bad as some on here assume

DD is 12, she has always been well behaved, part of that will be her natural personality but parenting wise I never told her off. Young child don't or can't process the 'Don't' part of a sentence they just hear the end which is the bit you dont want them to do. So if DD was doing something I didn't want her to do I would either turn what I wanted her to do into a game or give her a positive action of what I wanted her to do. Instead of "stop climbing on the sofa" I would tell her "Your feet need to be on the floor", "Dont run" became "walk next to me and hold my hand". If there were puddles and I needed her to stay dry we would play a game of "Who could walk around the puddle the quickest" etc.

A method that works with the burly year 11s that I teach as well as tiny toddlers is, don't ask, tell. Remove 'Please' from your vocabulary and replace it with 'Thank you'. "Take your cup into the kitchen, thank you" this way you show that you expect the task to be completed and are thanking them in advance instead of asking them. Or make them feel like they are helping you, "could you do me a favour and take your cup into the kitchen"