Expecting 2.5 year olds to be obedient??

[SheepingStandingUp]

Like they literally just look at me and decide if they want to obey or not.
Telling them to come here so I can change a nappy, not to pinch toys off a sibling, not to throw their food on the floor in a glorious rain of cereal to be crushed under foot for the sound, not sitting down to eat, not leaving the kitchen when I say, just basically everything!!

And then when they don't how do you even discipline a 2.5 year old?

But then they'll be 3 soon then 5 then 10 and what of they don't ever do as I tell them!!

But I agree that many bad behaviours may come from SN or trauma but these cases are rare.

"How old is your child? Do you really think they have sufficient life experience to decide everything for themselves?! I'm guessing you've got one of those universally unpopular spirited ones. And proud of it, too..."

This is a massive reach. And a really quite unpleasant comment.

Children who behave poorly when they are older are usually battling some kind of SN or trauma, IME.

That's exactly the kind of rubbish I'm talking about. No - most (not all) children who behave poorly when they are older are not battling some special needs, they haven't been properly disciplined when they were young.

But what is bad behaviour? Nothing the OP has said is bad behaviour more things that need to be learnt are unsafe or not appropriate

For a 2.5 year old climbing up something seems fun - we see the danger and the issue they do not.

They dont understand necessarily that wearing a nappy if they have used it could either cause a rash or leakage.

Throwing food over the place seems like a fun thing to do.

None are inherently bad - just things that need to be taught why they should or shouldnt do them the process of going from A to B

It's the same nostalgic nonsense that "the older generation" has been spouting about the younger since ancient Rome

Poor behaviour has always been a thing. My dad went to an extremely prestigious and stuffy old grammar school in the 40s - he was caned every Friday for five years, as were numerous other boys who were naughty, or had SEN, or volatile home lives and no support. There was child abuse, there was disruptiveness, there was antisocial behaviour.

The difference is that adults generally, in those times, enforced their will on children using violence, force, intimidation and inflexibility. It didn't create better adults, nor did it create a better society. It just meant more perfectly normal children went to bed hungry and with welts on their arses.

Just because a toddler has tantrums doesn't mean you give in! I feel some older parents on here would judge a parent because their child is having a tantrum, which is ridiculous as it is a very normal behaviour!

I actually think kids should gasp obey their parents within reasonable limits

OP said she should ALWAYS be obeyed ALL THE TIME though.

Well, are you talking to them as if they're 2.5, or 25? Issuing oblique instructions and expecting instant compliance is a fools errand when it comes to toddlers.

You want them to stop climbing? "Feet back on the carpet please, let's go have a look at XYZ."

You want them to stop throwing things? "Food stays on the plate, or in your mouth! Who's eaten the most cereal, is it crunchy or soft" etc etc etc

Don't just issue a command, you need to make the expectation clear and explicit, and then offer a 'next thing' to guide them through the moment.

If you're always saying "don't" or "stop" or similar, those words will lose all meaning, and they'll get frustrated that the world is full of things that are forbidden to them. Tell them what you do want to see, not what you don't, and praise praise praise praise praise all the time any hint of compliance or positive behaviour.

Just because that's how you were raised doesn't mean it was the right way.

Here you're not able to empathise with your kids. Not understanding how to read into the behaviour and take it for what it is I.e. attempt at communication from a person with underdeveloped prefrontal context.
Read up on child development, if you've decided to raise one of those.

I think it's really normal. Sounds like you have twins OP which must make things harder!!

Interesting thing about tantrums - when we were looking round a nursery they gave tantrums as an example of a developmental thing that they'd expect to happen. If they didn't happen at nursery (quite common they said), they'd ask the family if they happen at home in order to get the box ticked.

I think, especially at just 2.5, kids are all different and have differing levels of understanding and what works. With DS, I did a lot of talking things through, explaining, giving limited decisions etc but he was quite sensitive and eager to please and understood a lot which helped (but emotional - oh my god, the devastation if something small went wrong!). DD is a bit younger than 2.5 but I think she'll be very different - much more independent and stubborn!

As long as you follow through on what you say you'll do and don't make empty threats, don't make them the boss as that is stressful for them (eg don't always be asking "would you like lunch now?", "shall we get out of the bath?" etc). Just distract/remove them from things you don't want them to do and jolly/talk/explain them into what you do want them to do. Routine helps a lot too - if they know what to expect, I think it can be comforting for them and help things get done more easily.

I don't agree that it's 'nostalgic nonsense.' It's fairly clear that today's society has become one in which many people feel a sense of entitlement, and have selfish attitudes that were not prevalent in the past.

I don't advocate going back to the days when caning was allowed, but I do advocate stricter discipline of children, and less reliance on 'getting a diagnosis ' for children who are badly behaved and whose parents are looking for a professional such as a doctor to sort out their children for them.

How many times do I read on here that a child is out of control, and the advice is to 'see the GP.'

Encourage your toddler to get tasks achieved by simple positive rewards

When you get nappy on, then we can…(play with toys/ go out/ or other )

When you get dressed, then we can go….

When you put toys in basket, then you can …

Not only did op say in her post the age of her child, it's actually in the title of the thread!!

Very well said. Finally someone with some common sense. Far too many excuses are made for children's bad behaviour.

I was never caned, nor smacked. Never needed to be. I never pushed the boundaries so far and knew that no meant no. And I didn't starve neither as I knew I had to eat my dinner, that was how it is and that was that. No namely pamby nice nice nonsense, and a good dose of common sense. And we were happy, never afraid, and just knew right from wrong. Of course we were naughty sometimes, but we got due discipline for that (which didn't involve caning) and didn't repeat the action!

You don't think children grow out of bad behaviour? That is strange because they grow out of many immature things such as crawling, using baby talk, counting using their fingers, playing with toys, being interested in characters such as Thomas the Tank Engine or Peppa Pig. We don't teach them to grow out of these things, they just do. They naturally leave them behind as they get more proficient and sophisticated.

Of course, I do not mean that parents should sit back and wait for children to grow up without ever restricting or redirecting or coaching them at all, but it's absolutely not true that other people have taught my child to behave, maturity and (hopefully) my influence and modelling have done that. Other people obviously have an influence, that's true (and should be) for all families. But if it worked for outside influences to replace an absence of parenting then there would be no troubled teenagers or children.

You don't need to parent children out of tantrums, shouting, crying, age appropriate selfishness, any of that stuff. Yes guide them through it, yes mitigate damage/inconvenience to others. But you don't have to have a top down controlling response to behaviours. Obviously if it works for you then do what you like. I just don't think it's helpful to say that it's the only way.

Do you really think SN and trauma are rare? I don't, unfortunately. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a classroom without at least one child dealing with one or the other, most classes will have more than one.

yBut I don't want distraction. I want them to come when told, stop when told, and DO AS THEY'RE TOLD!

Then you, the adult, need to demonstrate exactly where the boundaries lie and consequences when they are overstepped. Consistently, every time.

"I won't put my shoes on". Okay, walk in socks.
"I won't eat my dinner" Okay, Rover will. No snacks before next meal.
" I won't hold hands" Okay, wear reins that buckle at the back no escape.
"I refuse to walk" Okay, lets all stand still for a very very long time. You on your reins while I do stuff on my phone.

Scream louder. Louder than that. I can't hear you.

"Oh, sorry, you didn't come and get ready so we're not going to the park"
"If you throw stuff at the TV you can't watch TV. "

If X, Y will follow.

Kids that age have some pretty intrnse drives that it's helpful to know about and work with rather than against.

For a start they are curious and focussed on learning about their world, sometimes obsessively returrning to something they've bot figured out yet. Sometimes they need help working out ok ways to experiment - I see you want to throw things. It's not ok to thtow that/here so let's go outside and play with your ball.

They're also trying to figure out boundaries and it isn't as obvious to them what's ok to do as it is to us. Telling them positively what to do generally works better than telling them to stop (like a pp's example of put your feet on the floor rather than saying get off the furniture). Consistency backed up with age appropriate explanations really helps here.

They also need some control over their world so offering them control/choices where it's ok can make it easier for them to respond well when it does matter.

And they need connection, to feel they have your attention when they are playing nicely and behaving well. Making doing the right thing fun and rewarding makes it easier next time.

None of this works all the time but I think it does help to take the approach that your child wants to please you by behaving well but keeps getting derailed and needs help to stay on track.

Sympathies OP, twins makes it extra frustrating because you’re dealing with a very similar level of maturity - when I have had a 2yo I have variously had either a newborn or a 4yo which at least mixes it up a bit because I could more or less rely on one of the non-2yos not to be doing something crazy whilst I was dealing with the 2yo.

with all children there are some behaviours that you just have to wait out and manage until they reach maturity, and others you have to actively teach them out of but it takes a lot of time and repetition - so it can be hard to tell the difference given that you don’t get a control subject. And the answers on this thread demonstrate how much disagreement there is about which behaviour is which (I am amused to see how many of those who declare themselves “old fashioned” are suggesting things that are exactly the same as “gentle” parenting advice, they would be horrified to hear this I’m sure as they have decided that gentle=permissive - personally I am much more flexible than any particular labelled, which I think is how the vast majority parent anyway)

Sorry, had HV review so didn't get back to check up on replies.

I'm sure your parenting was excellent, but did you ever consider that you were probably lucky too?

Eldest is in full time school, they can't go until January and then part time. God save my sanity.

I think your expectations need a bit of a re-set too probably 😂 but for once iny life it would be nice for expectations to be met

That's when you employ the "look" or even words -"I'm waiting" /"you heard". it doesn't work!! I've tried every voice and apparently I'm a natural born comedian b decays they're all funny. I mean it's very clear that no one will ever be actually scared of me so no worries there.

Counting to 3, with consequences, works for us 7/10 times I'd say. I broke the 1, 2, 3 thing with twin 1s obsession with rockets. You say 1, 2, 3.he says Whoosh. Maybe I can do you have until C.

when they run away in the supermarket and out of sight or throw everything off the shelf and smash glass etc we're team reins in this house. Nine negotiable and Tbf they don't argue

Children who behave poorly when they are older are usually battling some kind of SN or trauma, IME. some kids are just poorly parented.

OP said she should ALWAYS be obeyed ALL THE TIME though. OP should be allowed her fantasies.

Someone posted about them reaching stuff, the problem is they're so blooming tall and stretchy and are such excellent at climbing I can never anticipate what has to be moved next (stationary box, reached by standing on the chair arm and stretching. Achieved by Twin 2 and info immediately shared with Twin 1 because sharing is caring).

They're just bloody smarter than me!!

Thank you for those with suggestions or boo recommendations, I will take a look

Christ this thread. That's what we want, more boomers in the world. When I was a kid I walked 200 miles in the snow with no shoes and only gruel for breakfast, we never complained because we knew how to behave!!

They're 2. Toddlers don't obey unless they're terrified of you. Why would you want them to be scared of you?

You have to actually put work into children's behaviour in a way that works with their development. The word 'no' becomes meaningless if it's all you're ever saying. Say it only when it counts. The rest of the time you have to speak on their level.

Look up people like Big Little Feelings on Instagram for a start.