Expecting 2.5 year olds to be obedient??

[SheepingStandingUp]

Like they literally just look at me and decide if they want to obey or not.
Telling them to come here so I can change a nappy, not to pinch toys off a sibling, not to throw their food on the floor in a glorious rain of cereal to be crushed under foot for the sound, not sitting down to eat, not leaving the kitchen when I say, just basically everything!!

And then when they don't how do you even discipline a 2.5 year old?

But then they'll be 3 soon then 5 then 10 and what of they don't ever do as I tell them!!

They aren't miniature adults. Do you know much about a 2yr olds brain? I think it would help you understand their behaviour to read up on it. The way you are approaching and viewing their behaviour isn't helpful,

I think you need to look into what is developmentally normal. I agree children need discipline (which literally means taught how to behave) but you need to do it in an age appropriate away. Always set expectations before you do something, every time eg we are going to walk to the shops on the way you must hold my hand so you don’t get lost and then when you’re nearly say well done for holding my hand, inside the shop we will be x, y and z. They need consistent boundaries and feedback. The book how to talk so little children listen is good. But no you aren’t going to get 100% obedience.

I agree with you. I grew up in a very fair bit old fashioned household, where no meant no, throwing a strop got you nowhere (except into more trouble), refusing food meant you starved and that what the adults said went. I was happy, healthy and grounded. Some kids today are just entitled, excuses made for their bad behaviour all the time. I honestly pity their teachers.

I know exactly how you feel lol (I am often screaming in my head JUST FUCKING DO IT FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY PLEASE JUST DO IT).

I’m using gentle parenting, it’s made me a calmer more understanding parent (on the outside). Reality is, your toddler is absolutely not going to obey you. You have to learn how to cope without losing your shit and giving your kid issues.

philippa perry’s book is quite good.

Well, yes, you can cow children into compliance by using force and instilling fear. Unfortunately the price of privileging "obedience" over real, social learning - which is much slower and messier - is that the child grows up behaving according to conditioned responses and the fear of punishment, rather than having a properly developed moral compass and the ability to make critical judgements. It's actually pretty dangerous to teach children that unquestioning obedience is a desirable trait, in my view.

Like they literally just look at me and decide if they want to obey or not.

That's when you employ the "look" or even words -"I'm waiting" /"you heard".

Expecting to say something and have them jump to is strange - they are learning and will need constant reminders.

At 2.5 when they are prone to developmental tantrums as they realise they are independent beings - techniques like distraction encouragement making a game out of things or quietly and calming waiting them out and constant reminders about acceptable behaviour are all useful and almost certainly daily needed - you do see a pay off in the end it just takes years.

Haha some new age parents on here. I'm old-fashioned so I actually think kids should gasp obey their parents within reasonable limits. Obviously that doesn't mean jumping out a window if I tell them to or stop thinking for themselves. It does mean that if I say to wait for me to cross the street, or that they should put on their shoes because we're going to be late, then they should do it in a timely fashion. I don't think they'll be scarred for life or become robots because I demand basic respect and safety rules.

Anyway, my son is also 2yo and perfectly old enough to understand what he is allowed or not to do. He can choose not to do it, but he knows he's in the wrong.

Bribery works as a preventive measure. If he starts misbehaving I won't bribe as that would reinforce the negative behaviour. Short time out in room works wonders with both 2yo and 3.5yo. If he refuses to put on pajamas at night, I appreciate it's a game for him so I let him play a bit at running away naked, but then I warn him that now it's time for bed and if he doesn't come he'll go to bed naked. Only had to do it a couple of times before the threat alone was enough to make him behave (I didn't actually leave him naked the whole night, after 5 min he was eager to put on his pajamas).

It's quite lazy and insulting to stereotype all dissenters as "new age parents" - clearly your desire to be complied with runs pretty deep

Some of us aren't remotely "new age". I'm an early years teacher, so child development is quite important to me and I know a fair bit about it. My two are 18 and 20 now, one at university and the other working 40 hours a week while doing a full-time college course. They're respectful, principled and thoroughly delightful to be around. We didn't accept bad manners or behaviour, but we didn't prioritise "obedience" over normal infant development, either.

The key to this for me was bribery 😃
If you have a child resistant to that then I have no idea what you're meant to do! My eldest had to be bribed to do everything. She is now a very delightful and helpful 12 yo (who doesn't need bribing but will still accept cash or treats if offered!)

Even though it doesn't feel like toddlers are listening I think talking through the reasons you are asking them to do something helps them eventually learn the logic. However I wouldn't ever bother doing this over a tantrum.

Also consistency is quite important. Doing the same routine at the same time each day builds over time and eventually they get the hang of it.

123 magic worked for me.

What worked for mine was constant praise and encouragement from the very start. So when they started to hear something different, ie a no or a stop, they took notice as it was different.

But it could also be that I was lucky ☺️

OP I totally get what you mean! Ignore people saying it’s wrong to “obey” - it’s not a matter of yes sir, no sir, three bags full sir, it’s about listening to you as a parent when you’re trying to prevent them from hurting themselves / others. Mine is the same age and is exactly the same. Im
not strict or prescriptive but when they run away in the supermarket and out of sight or throw everything off the shelf and smash glass etc. I do expect them to listen just for pure safety reasons! It’s about finding that balance but unfortunately they do like to test boundaries and have very little concept of danger at that age so it’s a tough one. I don’t have any real pearls of wisdom I’m sorry to say but I do know from personal experience they grow out of it and it gets much easier over time! Hang on in there! 😃

Ok so to add on to my first comment I wouldn't say that children should never obey others but from your response to me that they should always obey their mother I disagree. The example you use of not touching things on a shelf just isn't an age appropriate expectation, it's your fault for leaving something in reach that you don't want them to have. Hurting siblings is a them learning boundaries and absolutely you should prevent them from touching the sibling and once calm explain to them it's not ok to hurt people. And yes they need to stop if it's going to cause hurt to themselves or others but otherwise does it really matter. There are times when boundaries need to be enforced but nearly telling a 2 year old just won't work they need to be shown again and again and not in the midst of the situation when emotions are high and they won't hear a single thing you say. How to talk are great books for getting this across.

Counting to 3, with consequences, works for us 7/10 times I'd say. You've got to follow through and actually do the thing you've told them you'll do. Change your tone of voice, firm but not angry/yelling so they know when you mean business.

"You've got to the count of 3 to put that down or you're going on the naughty step for 1 minute" (this is after a few times of asking them nicely first).

Sorry but when I hear people say their kids (especially 4!) never tantrummed, I would say you are looking back with rose tinted glasses 🤣

I agree with this wholeheartedly. My children were certainly not cowed or fearful and grew up to be balanced, resilient, happy and successful adults, now with families of their own.

There are so many threads on here about out of control teens, that tell me that, for many parents, disciplining children has become far too lax.

Sorry but when I hear people say their kids (especially 4!) never tantrummed, I would say you are looking back with rose tinted glasses 🤣

I knew one who didn't tantrum - parents were in education and knew it wasn't normal though were still thrown by normal next child. The girl was just incredibly passive from babyhood onwards.

But I agree it's usually rose tinted glasses.

The world doesn't work like that with adults or children.

Obedient children are usually frightened children. Well-behaved is different.

Ugghhh for me it's the threads about picky eating. With a thousand excuses for it too! We never got a say in what we ate when we were younger. My gran did a system where the food was all served in big bowls in the middle and you took as much/little as you wanted but you had to try everything. Seemed a bit less intimidating than a huge plate of food you had to finish. Never any complaints. And none of this 'I'll offer cereal/toast/snacks' as an alternative if they refuse. When we got older (teens) we used to make a meal planner for the following week and we could all suggest things, but they had to be healthy. Loved it!
We liked having boundaries - it meant we knew what we could/couldn't do. My mum retired from teaching recently saying that the naughtiest kid back when she started would now be considered star pupil, and that standards of behaviour and basic discipline are now just terrible.

Assuming this came from AIBU - yes YABU to expect obedience from children this age, quite often they aren't actually capable of doing what you've asked them to do.

If you do want the obedience or else approach then I hear 123 Magic is good.

While we're on the topic, has anybody found where the mute button is installed on a 3.10 year old? I tried inserting an ice pop but it doesn't last very long.

I agree with that. I have also seen that the nicest well mannered kids have parents who speak to them in the same nice respectful manner but who have clear rules and boundaries and do not give up to any tantrums or bad behaviour.

Funnily enough my teen, who I "gentle parented" through his toddler years and was at times a fucking nightmare 😂 is absolutely lovely now, respectful, empathetic, reasonable.

The theory that annoying behaviour when they're little is age appropriate and they will grow out of it given time and empathy works. It's not being soft. Children who behave poorly when they are older are usually battling some kind of SN or trauma, IME.

Yes I think you dont want obedience or control you want to be able to create a child who becomes an adult who understands the boundaries and rules within which society thrives and why they are needed

Old fashioned idea that a child should respect its elders but it works. 4 kids - no tantrums ever, no refusal of food, no back chat, no swearing, always been employed three at management level, never in trouble with the law etc. Children need to be trained to respect.others but also to have respect for themselves.

Not just that though but that they are respected as well as individuals who also have autonomy and rights over themselves within boundaries and whilst also respecting others.

For example - going out without no clothes on - huge no. Going out in mismatched clothes that they have picked - absolutely fine. Work out the non negotiables and allow for

No always means No - but choose when to say no (see above with clothes

We liked having boundaries - it meant we knew what we could/couldn't do. My mum retired from teaching recently saying that the naughtiest kid back when she started would now be considered star pupil, and that standards of behaviour and basic discipline are now just terrible

I retired from teaching some years ago, and I agree with your mum. My children never got a choice of food either.

I don’t believe kids grow out of bad behaviour, I do think someone else deal with it to make them stop, it could be the teacher, the grandma or their peers making it clear that some behaviours are simply not on even if their parents are taking a back sit hoping for the behaviour to sort itself.