School system

[ChickenRacer]

Hi,
My lo is supposed to be starting reception in September, but I really do not feel happy about it. No concerns specific to lo.

Its I just don’t feel confident schools are good places - because of the testing and pressure it brings, large children to staff ratios, ungentle behaviour policies, potential for bullying, the manipulation techniques teachers have to use when managing a class of kids, lack of play as they get older, I could go on!

it seems children have so many mental health problems these days and whilst I’m sure some of that is down to more awareness etc, I can’t help think that the modern school system has a big role in this too.

I know there is the possibility of home educating, but this isn’t a option for everyone, so where does this leave our children?

I see today that the government is increasing the academisation of school, basically privatisation of schools, which surely means managers making lots of money, money that really should be going to the children.

i don’t see very many people worried or talking about this often, so is it just me?!

This alone shows the sheer closed mindedness re schooling. No one is allowed a different opinion, look at the ugly way OP is being attacked by teachers of all people. Fills you with confidence doesn't it ?
School was created in a time and place that no longer exists now, a very traditional systen preparing our kids for a traditional idea of work that doesn't exist any longer.
Plus the unrealistic belief one size fits all.
Kids are herded through the school system like cattle, and you might as well stamp them all with the same barcode. They are taught to fit in, not stand out.
I' ve yet to meet a treacher who admits to liking their job, most are off sick with stress/ anxiety, looking to change their job, yet zero empathy should a child or teen be afflicted by the curse of anxiety, they are just expected to carry on. Schools way of support is threatening to fine the parent or send them to prison and with thousands of members completely at their wits end on the Not Fine At School forum, you would think maybe they would realise using fear as a tool, doesn't work.

Home Education is the way forward, the world has moved on, not the shitshow HS during covid, where the classroom was moved into home, home schooling doesn' t work like that. Most teenagers find school boring and pointless. They feel trapped in a system that is broken. No one is brave enough to change it.

How rude are you?
No one is attacking the op.

I'm with moonface! Schools and the appalling school system we have seriously negatively impact mental wellness of children.

Your opening post did you no favours.

Your later post is completely different:
but the system the teachers and kids find themselves i think is awful. I think schools need smaller class sizes, more TAs, less testing, ofsted completely overhauled and more support for play and child led learning!

I don't think there is a practising (or retired or resigned) teacher who would disagree with any of that.
but
If you are in the UK, with a 4 yr old, then that is the starting point.
If you are rich you can opt to educate privately
If you are wealthy enough to be able to afford to not have to work for a living then you can home educate
You can keep your child home another year and have them miss out on the same start as all their peers

(all the above options have drawbacks, as much as they do appeal to small minorities of people)
or you can accept that is the system we have in this country, go in to it with a positive attitude, and a 'How can I help' way of thinking, and in turn you are likely to end up with a much more positive experience than if you are starting by deciding it is a failed system before your little one has even strted.

Good primary schools can be very beneficial for teaching children a love of learning and to help them socialise and feel positive about doing there best.

Secondary is a different beast altogether. I disagree with end of year exams in KS3, children don't need that sort of stress at such a young age and it doesn't aid their learning and retention of information. Many other countries don't do exams at that age, just tests at the end of each learning unit. My highly academic ds who used to never worry about getting anything wrong at school, such was his academic and social confidence, has really struggled with the stress of year 7 exams. He has experience a massive fear of failure in the lead up, even though he did extremely well in them.

As other PPs have said, no-one would disagree that schools are underfunded & understaffed, due to successive awful government policy. Much the same as the NHS, dentistry, Social Care etc are.
But what are you expecting parents & teachers to come together & do? How can we hold the government to account? For many the only way would be voting, but that is often ineffective when you are battling against a swell of people who don't have the same priorities as you.
I assume from your OP you have already selected & been given the primary school your DC will be attending, being as they start in Sept?
What did you think about school funding & the education system before you had children? Was it a priority for you in terms of who you voted for? Did you go on marches? Support petitions etc? Would you have happily paid more in tax to fund it? Because unfortunately, for most people, you don't really care about or aren't aware of the issues until they affect you.
Your dc starts school in 4 months & you're only concerned about this now?

Hi OP!
I am an ex primary school teacher.
I Home Ed my two children.
I also know many ex teachers who home ed their own children.

I won’t go into any details personally but just know I’m on your page.

I don’t think here is the right place to discuss this. Please go on other platforms - FB and IG have wonderful content/support regarding how you are feeling.

Also look up John Holt, Peter Gray and Stark raving dad (on IG and FB) is amazing (also does a wonderful podcast!)

Best of luck!

I think I am being attacked though!

a number of people have got quite angry and told me bluntly well you should home educate. Surely that’s rather dismissive and professionals should be able to have a constructive debate

Right, so if I go with the school option, surely I need to understand better the problems so “i can help”? How can I understand and help and get involved if I don’t know the system itself, good and bad?

You are making a lot of assumptions about me here, I have not just been concerned about education since having kids and yes I have done many of the things you’ve suggested.

I am surprised how many people don’t find education of children a priority and that therefore there isn’t more pressure from the public (parents or not) to improve it. I genuinely wonder if it’s because people don’t know or because they just dig their head in the sand?

Thanks.

i have seen the other forums you’ve mentioned.

I just wanted to get the views from more mainstream people (I hope that isn’t an insulting term to use, no bad intent meant!) too, just to ensure I wasn’t only getting views from “one side”. I try to be as objective as possible so I was wondering (hoping?)
if I’d get posts about how great schools actually were, and that my concerns were at least partially unfounded and I’d be reassured that school is a good place. Sadly that has not really happened - perhaps that in itself has answered my question

…In that case make sure you vote for a government that prioritises education & these changes you’d like to see. Beyond that you could homeschool or go private, (or become a teacher ?!). I think you’re right but not much you can do other than prepare your kids well. They do have to grow up at some point and the world of work is money focused!! xo

Maybe the fact that playtime is only 15 minutes is a huge problem in itself?

Maybe the fact that playtime is only 15 minutes is a huge problem in itself?

my son is in reception they get 20 min 80min then another 20min.
Also, I think they only sit down a learn about 2 times a day for ten min

And could you please explain what you mean by “parents like you?”

i am worried about my child and want to make sure they will thrive. I’ve heard lots of problems about schools. So I need to know more about the school environment so I posted a question to find out more. Exactly what’s wrong with asking questions?

I don’t understand what’s wrong with that in your opinion.

I was directly quoting a teacher who said seeing as playtime is only 15 minutes it’s not going to affect their mental health if they miss it.

yes, in reception it is still play based - but year one upward playtime is drastically reduced

Op, most dcs flourish in the social environment of reception/ ks1. The day is initially based on play.
If you don't yet have a child in school, send your dc and watch her progress carefully - as we all do. If she has any difficulties, you can raise them with the school, support her at home. But most dcs enjoy primary school.
People like to talk about the horror stories, the good stuff makes less interesting anecdotes.

I agree with you. I have one in primary & one in secondary. Primary is bit mixed, some lovely (young & inexperienced) teachers but HT carries in like he’s running his own business & tbh is a complete knob. It’s great for socialisation however some teachers have made some huge blunders & don’t like to be called out on it & definitely every child seems to have mental health issues (eye roll) but I think it’s more to do with every parent having them, it’s now the ‘go to’ disability. Secondary school is run like a military base where no child is encouraged to question anything & individual free thought is a no no; punishment is given for the most minor infraction (conditioning them to be compliant basically). I would love to home school but my fear would be them having no friends

I agree with the previous poster about the ‘shame’ comment.
I know too many parents who are determined their child never experiences disappointment, embarrassment or any negative emotions but children need to (in small doses, in a safe environment) to learn. I’m a teacher, yes there are flaws but there are also lots of positives. My children love school, despite being in classes of 30, with some disruptive children, behaviour charts in place and so on.

I’d say not being in school causes greater mental health issues- there’s always going to be kids that school isn’t for them but I’d say that’s the minority. I would say the increase in mental health issues hasmore to do with social media and 2022 living than schools.

I wouldn’t say we make kids sit like robots the minute they hit year 1- want to try some of the Asian countries schools ?! But yes at some point children have to learn and put effort in to practice and get better at what they are learning. Tbh OP, whilst we all agree class sizes could ideally be smaller and the system is far too much reporting and stats for teachers - you sound a bit precious. At some point in life it’s about conforming and being compared to your peers, life cannot be tailored around your childrens likes forever.

Could you name some of the positives, to counter all the negatives I’ve heard.

yes I agree children can’t be protected from everything and need to build resilience. I just don’t know if the school environment is good or bad at doing that - hence my post to find out more about schools, as Ive heard so many bad things from many different sources (teachers, parents, forums, media) s

I understand that your opinion is school does not negative impact on children’s mental health - But surely we still should still ask the question. The alternative is we never ask or question and then blindly lead ourselves into all sorts of problems. I didn’t say schools did cause mental health problems, I just wondered if it contributed. That is a fair question I feel. How can it be wrong to want to be sure schools are safe environments? How can we do better if we never ask ourselves is what we are doing working well?

yes we have to eventually have to live and work in the adult world. I wonder though does it need to start so young? Many other countries with very good school systems do not start formal learning as young, do not test as much and do not compare schools in league tables etc. Our school system is not the only way, surely it’s a good thing to always question, review, better understand and improve when we know better? For example we know from lots of research how beneficial play is, but it is dramatically reduced from year one, because of the government’s focus on literacy and numeracy, which they like as they can monitor and tick boxes - but the question is, does that formal, limited play format actually work out best for children, both in well being and also long-term
academics and future success?

I wanted to add my experience of DD in year 1. They continued having some free play in class in Autumn and Spring terms. (This may have been influenced by COVID, I'm not sure). Now it is all teacher led learning. However lots of that learning is active and fun e.g. acting out the story in groups, junk modelling, painting, physical challenges. I accept this is adult led so not an opportunity for free choice, but is still bringing in play skills. It actually suits my DD much better than the free play of Reception but I understand that isn't the case for everyone.

I believe the school have a supportive approach to tests, in that they underline things for them to try again and the language they use is positive (about learning not testing). I realise the fact they have tests (whatever they call them) is problematic for many, especially those who find it hard.

There is a lot of criticism of 'one size fits all', rightly so, because kids fall through the cracks. However the system (in good schools) does work for lots of the kids. That doesn't mean that changes aren't needed, but does mean there is a good chance your 4yo will thrive.

Oh and I've just started volunteer reading, so that might be an option again.

I don't think mental health issues stem from school alone.

It's multifaceted. Here are a few factors that contribute to poor mental health in tweens and teenagers in my view.

Little to no opportunity to be independent. E.g.

• Few kids cycle, roller skate or play out exploring with their friends as that is seen as neglectful. Indeed many neighbourhoods are built up with roads that let cars drive at 30MPH so there is little opportunity to roam safely with their peers.

-Instead kids attend a busy schedule of educational, organised activities to which they are driven by their parents and during which they are supervised by adults and instructed what to do. -Gaming gives a bit of freedom away from their parents watchful eyes, which is probably a key reason children love it so much. But gaming can be extremely addictive as it triggers the award system in a way that it becomes more and more difficult to have satisfying experiences from 'real-life' activities.

• Kids are walked to school by parents until they are almost 11. This is for lots of sensible reasons e.g. traffic, tricky and big crossing but most kids would be bale to navigate a 5-10 minute walk to school from 8 years and up. They are basically constantly being managed by adults.

Inflexible cookie cutter secondary schools
Schools pile on pressure with SATS in year 6 and then move onto narrow but intense academic expectations from year 7. Secondary schools are too big with 200 kids in a year group. The way behaviour is managed in secondary schools is crazy. Young kids gather negative or positive points which are logged in an app that is shared with parents and if they dare to forget something or sneeze at the wrong time in class they get a negative point. This is authoritarian and leaves little room for being oneself. I know why they do it and that if kids are disruptive or forget their equipment valuable lesson time gets wasted but it is a conveyor belt approach. I think there is enormous authoritarian pressure in secondary school it's all about crowd control and cookie cutter approaches and very little about personal expression.

Social media
What can I say? We give children access to phones and social media from around 10 years where they encounter rough behaviour from peers who haven't learnt how to communicate politely online and they don't ever get a break from these influences, not even at home or abroad on holiday. Inappropriate content and addiction to social media validation are all detrimental for young minds.

Parents
We are frazzled, get little downtime, and pass on our stresses to our kids.

There is much more but I don't think any of the above help kids with their mental health.

as it triggers the reward system